Weno gente, pues por fin el ente corralesco me envió el articulillo en
cuestión sobre la histeria del MSX en essspañavabien. Aquí os lo
forguarreo a fin y efecto de que le echeis un ojo y vomiteis cuantas
Primero me gustaría expresar mi decepción con la actuación del Líder.
Este artículo hace unas 3 semanas que tanto RRibas como yo tuvimos la
ocasión de hecharle un vistazo en tu casa y ya puntualizamos ciertos errores
A estos efectos has contado con el artículo que escribí para el num 2 de
Retrogames sobre ( curiosamente) el MSX en España, las aportaciones de
individuales y la discusión en la HispaMSX al respecto, para efectuar
correcciones y pulir el texto definitivo ( que debería ser el que nos
presentases ahora!), pero nos das a corregirte el mismo artículo de Corrales
tal cual estaba. Hombre!! De que ha servido que pidieras tantos datos a la
lista si ahora nos presentas este texto como el artículo definitivo??
Podrías haber ya modificao los datos que sabes erróneos para no tener que
hacerlo otra vez! ;-P
Bueno, sin malos rollos, eh? Tan solo destacar que esa vagancia..... Serán
los calores? Líder!! "No pesan los años, pesan los...." XDD
Venga, a echar un vistazo al texto. Todo sea por el sistema!! ^_^
----------
The MSX system appeared in the computing scene of Spain in 1985, Philips
was the first company
which introduced MSX on the european market. The first public exhibition
was in the SIMO fair
(Madrid) and Informat (Barcelona), the expectation was high and there were
a lot of discussions
regarding the compatibility issues.
Creo que muchos discrepamos anteriormente sobre la fecha de 1985. Los datos
que aporté dejan claro que fué en 1984 y que el primer MSX en Europa ( y
España) fué presentado por Sony.
"Estos datos estan sacados de una entrevista a Javier Ibañez, Product
Manager
de Sony, S.A. durante los años en cuestión:
La PRESENTACIÓN del MSX en TODA Europa la hace Sony en España, con motivo
del INFORMAT en 1984. Allí se presentan con el HB55P a modo de exposición.
Las VENTAS de MSX en ESPAÑA empezaron la ÚLTIMA SEMANA de
SEPTIEMBRE 1984 "
Big stores called "El Corte Ingles" started to sell MSX computers in
Christmas 1985, maybe too
late because another 8 bits home computers were introduced since one or two
years ago.
Habiendo empezado su comercialización oficial más de un año antes me extraña
( aunque puede ser posible). ¿ Es un dato fiable que antes no los vendían (
por simple curiosidad)? De todas formas el que un almacen ( aunque sea el
Corte Inglés) los vendiera o no en fecha tan tardía como Navidades 1985 ( o
sea, CASI en 1986) me parece irrelevante para los japos ( destinatarios del
artículo, no lo olvidemos).
The "best seller" MSX machines were from Sony and Philips, Philips
dominated the european
market without doubts, but Sony was always the main competence for Philips,
between them they
had about 75-85% of the spanish computing MSX market. There were also a
famous companies that
sold MSX machines with success, like Toshiba and SVI, the most famous
models were SVI 728 from
Spectravideo (distribuited under Indescomp spanish company), Canon V20 and
Toshiba HX-10. The
rest of the marks were non successful, that´s the cause of the abandon of
several companies
such as Dynadata (the spanish mark for Daewoo), Piooner, Sharp, and much
more got out from the
spanish MSX market afther the failed MSX-1 "experiment".
Even there was a 100% spanish MSX computer developed under the spanish
company, Dragon, only
500 units were sold, so it´s a collectors loved machine.
Según la web de Tromax ( como puntualizaba Callahan2002) el nombre era: "
Dragon-MSX 64K"
Apart from all the hardware made in Japan and Netherlands (Philips), there
were some hardware
made in Spain, diskdrives from Indescomp, MSX-SVI adaptor (for making fully
compatible the old
SVI computers with MSX standard),Memory expansions from several independent
hardware developers.
The hardware prices were too high comparing with another computers like
Spectrum, during those
years japanese "yen" and spanish "peseta" were equivallent. The price for a
typical MSX-1
without extras was 69.500 (Toshiba HX-10, Philips VG8020), a normal single
side diskdrive
costed about 40.000-50.000 pts. The typical MSX cartridges had a price of
about 4.000-6.000 pts.
A
ñadir quizás que el soporte mayoritario de distribución de juegos y software
en Europa ( y también para MSX) era la cinta, con precios que oscilaron para
los juegos entre unas 1500 - 3000 ptas en sus primeros tiempos hasta las
875-1000 de los últimos.
Spain produced a lot of commercial software productions for MSX and MSX-2,
during the first
years Opera Soft, Dinamic and Topo Soft for example made very good games,
using the special
features of the MSX system (VDP, PSG...),Abu Simbel Profanation (Dinamic)
Phantomas (Topo) and
Goody (Opera) were good examples of such good entertainment software.
Depende de si hablas de buén software o buén software PARA MSX (
aprovechamiento de VDP, PSG, que comentas). En este último caso creo que ni
siquiera en sus primeros tiempos Dinamic realizara juegos con versiones que
aprovecharan alguna de sus capacidades. Abu Simbel que comentas es un
ejemplo, ya que no se diferencia en casi nada a su versión Spectrum, pero lo
mismo pasa con Phantomas, ninguno sería un exponente de buén software PARA
MSX ( dejando de lado que sean por otra parte juegos excelentes por derecho
propio).
Si quieres comentar juegos de factoría española que hicieran buén uso de las
capacidades del MSX ( incluso con versiones MSX2 para Goody y Livingstone)
deberías referirte a Temptations, Livingstone, Alehop, Last Mission, Colt36
( y muchos otros, claro) y también a Goody ( cosa que sí haces). Opera y
quizás Topo, pero creo que en ningún caso Dinamic se puede considerar que
hiciera buenos juegos PARA MSX ( repito: PARA MSX, sin denostar que hiciera
buenos juegos por sí mismos, que hizo y muchos)
Professional software
was also avaliable under spanish software companies,Ease was a complete
home office system for
MSX-2 computers,made by Opera soft in clear competence agaisnt the Egos
from Sony.
Error: EGOS ( Escritorio Grafico Opera Soft). Tanto EGOS como EASE fueron
realizados por Opera, aunque EASE se distribuía bajo sello Philips ( en la
presentación, por eso se ve bién claro el nombre de Opera, aunque más grande
aún aparece el nombre de Philips ^_^ )
After the golden years, spanish software decreased the quality with the
introduction of several
cross code conversors, so programmers prefered to use conversions from
Spectrum versions, due
this issue the spanish users started to get angry with the european
software productors, many
conversions were not fully compatible with MSX-2.
¿Era un problema EXCLUSIVO de las converisiones Speccy->MSX ( creo que es
lo que se da a entender al usar el término conversiones)?? Creo que era un
problema más generalizado (debido al mapeador de los MSX2).
The production of entertainment software for
MSX-2 was very low, and there were only a few conversions made by Opera
Soft of their games.
Idealogic was one of the rare companies which produced some spanish games
for MSX-2 during the
commercial years, distribuited under Philips seal.
What about MSX Magazines in Spain?, there were a lot of stupid and
oportunistic magazines during
1985-1986, with no success of course because they only wanted to make
bussines as soon as
possible,offering poor quality productions. Meanwhile the first spanish MSX
magazine: "MSX
Extra" appeared as soon as the first MSX computers were sold, during 1985.
Cambiar la frase. Ya hemos dicho lo de la fecha.
"MSX Magazine" was the
most professional spanish magazine,there is no relation between the
japanase one and this one.
Spanish "MSX Magazine" started its history in May 1985,just after Sonimag
(computer fair of
Barcelona),at the same time the most famous and loved magazine: "MSX Club"
had the first number
in the bookstores of Spain, one year later a great quality magazine
appeared in the MSX scene
of Spain, its name was "Input MSX",but we could only enjoy this magazine
during two and a half
years, December, 1998 was the last month for "Input MSX".
COÑO!! O_O!! La de números que me he perdido!!!!! Corregir 1998 por 1988 (
claro error de teclear ^_^ )
"MSX Magazine" was the first magazine
which abandoned in June of 1987.In 1989 only MSX Club continued offering a
monthly magazine to
all the spanish MSX users, MSX Extra was produced by the same editors of
MSX Club", and they
decided to eliminate MSX Extra, there was not enough space for the two
publications.
Finally "MSX Club" closed the magazine at December, 1991,this was the final
for the commercial
MSX scene in Spain because the last spanish MSX games were made during this
year.
There were some tape MSX magazines, but they were unsucessful and the tapes
had not enought
quality to justify the 500 pts you had to pay for them, the most famous
tape magazine for MSX
was "Data MSX", made by Geasa.These tape magazines used to have some BASIC
games and no more.
The "official" or big commercial piracy was very rare in Spain, only some
flea markets
distribuited bad quality copies of several games (specially from Konami)
with B/W papers and
bad recorded tapes. Curiosly the piracy was increased rapidly after the
commercial years of
MSX,a lot of people could buy diskdrives or MSX-2 with FDD and then they
bought ROM converted
games in disk format. But Spain was always far from Brazil in the piracy
subject.
Me parece que los españoles nos hemos ganado a pulso el mérito de estar
entre los más Piratas dl planeta ( a las estadísticas me remito) :-P, Pero a
mi parecer el acusar a los vecinos de que ellos lo son aún más me parece que
es de muy mal gusto, aparte de quedar infantil y no aportar nada al
artículo ( ya hablarán los brasileños de la situación en su país, que
supongo también hanrán sido llamados a hacer un artículo similar).
The MSX was the second home computer system after Spectrum, estimations can
afirm that during
the heydays about 200.000 users could enjoy with MSX.
Es cierto que el MSX1 fué bastante más popular y tuvo mucha más distribución
de la que nos podemos imaginar visto la pobre presencia que tenía en muchas
de las revistas especializadas de corte general, pero llegó realmente a ser
el num 2 de España?? Corrales, podrías darme la referéncia de estos datos (
igual puedo añadirlo a mi artículo).
MSX was very successful in Spain, why the hardware firms retreated from the
spanish market?,
there is a simple answer, the spanish pie was very small, the difference
between MSX and
Spectrum
.
..y Amstrad, y Commodore, y AtariST, y... Que parece que tenemos manía
persecutoria con el Spectrum!! ^_^
is in the number of companies who developed both systems,MSX was a standard
so
many marks could develop MSX computers, and the were not enough customers
for the companies
targets.In 1989 the last MSX models were sold in Spain,Philips was the last
company with
presence in Spain,but suddenly in 1990 all the commercial hardwared
dissapeared, including
the support to a large amount of MSX users who felt very bad with this
decision.
En mi opinión el problema fué un poco más allá. Hubo muchos desarrolladores
de Hardware, pero nadie se preocupó del Software. Una vez se vendieron las
unidades, las compañías no cuidaron de dar a sus clientes soft de calidad (
en general, claro). Y por tanto tampoco había una política unificada de
calidad, una representación única del estándar frente a las casas de
software que marcara directrices, promoviera e hiciera publicidad en las
revistas, se preocupara de la imágen, etc... Se presupuso que alguien lo
haría, y a la vista de la calidad de la mayor parte del software europeo, no
se hizo.
Sony and Philips are the most common computers in the current years,but
fortunately many people
could buy a MSX Turbo-R during these last five years, so between active
users is very common to
own at least a MSX-2+. The top ten of MSX models has the next computers: 1-
Philips NMS 8245,
2- Sony F-700, 3- Philips NMS 8250, 4- Panasonic A1-ST, 5- Panasonic A1-GT,
6- Sanyo
Wavy 70FD, 7- Philips VG 8235, 8- Philips NMS 8280, 9- Sony F1 XDJ, 10-
Panasonic A1-WX.
There was a sad year, 1992 was the "final" for the MSX system in Spain,
MSX Club" magazine
stopped and many people abandoned the MSX when they did not feel the
support of the commercial
companies, no magazines, no games, no hardware, it was hard to continue
using the MSX. We
know that many MSX users started to make associations and clubs, and the
MSX meetings raised
very soon.
-------------------- NON COMERCIAL PART
December, 1991, just before Barcelona olympic games, that was the end of
the commercial age of
the MSX in Spain,the last commercial magazine: "MSX Club" stopped the
production without
previous advertisement,it was a hard hit to our MSX hearts.The last MSX
conversions were made
during this year, bad games like Smaily (Zigurat game about the incoming
olympic games) or North
& South were developed.
1992 was one of the worst years for the MSX, people were confused and
hundred of users changed
to videoconsoles or clone PCs. Fortunately some users decided to work
together for maintaining
the MSX alive and some old little MSX clubs appeared in the scene as the
most important things
for our system.
Club Hnostar made the first MSX fanzine after the end of MSX Club,
Me parece que desde la propia MSXClub se quiso continuar desde un fanzine
llamado NIHONGO, justo después de su desaparición. ¿Álguien puede
confirmarlo??
at the first years it was only
a B/W amateur paper with some information, but with the years it was
improved till July, 2000,
when the last number was released with an incredible quality, full colour
bright covers, high
resolution B/W pages and A4 format. Currently there are three fanzines
avaliable for the MSX
users: Moai Magazine (A3,colour covers), SD MeSXes (A3, laser) and MSX
Lehenak (colour covers,
A3).
Lehenak hace bastaaaaante tiempo que no sacan nuevo número ( haber si un día
nos dais una agradable sorpresa! :D). Se pueden considerar "currently
avaliable"??
También hubo FKDFan y algunas diskMagazines ( creo que incluso antes del
92!) que deberían ser tenidas en cuenta.
During the non comercial years some MSX fairs and meetings has raised over
the MSX scene, the
oldest one was Barcelona, with plus than twenty editions this is the most
visited fair of Spain,
some years got about 250 visitors. The first Barcelona fair was made in
1992 (CORRIJE ESTO NESTOR
PORQUE NO ESTOY SEGURO). The second MSX fair of Spain in importance is
MadriSX, a MSX fair of
Madrid, capital of Spain, since 1994 this fair is held for all the spanish
users due the
geographical situation of Madrid and the relevance of the city in the
european comunitacions,
so this is the most visited fair by the foreigner users.
Creo que estas últimas frases son un poco exageradas. Das a entender que hay
mucha gente extranjera que viene a las RUs de españa, pero van más a Madrid
pq está mejor comunicada. Tan elevado es el número de visitantes de fuera de
nuestras fronteras que visitan CADA año Madrisdx??
There was only three editions of a MSX party made in Cartagena (Murcia),but
the organization
finished their work and it dissapeared.
Creo que el último comentario sobra ( vamos, a los japos poco les puede
importar, no?)
The software released during the non comercial years has been very good,
probably better than
in the commercial years, games like KPI Ball, Sonyc, Bubble Rain, and some
translations of famous
japanese games appeared for making delicious moments with our old MSX. The
non entertainment
software released for MSX during the non commercial years was so good and
it let our MSX to be
connected to BBS (QWK and Blue Wave),Internet (Internestor) and more useful
programs for
design and much more.
Unos cuantos nombres de estas aplicaciones??
The number released hardware in Spain during these non commercial years was
big.
The number of released hardware in Spain during these non-commercial years
has been big ( aún estamos en los años "no comerciales" ;-P)
Leonardo Padial
is the main hardware developer of Spain, famous projects like Z380 board or
MMSX project were
designed under his hands. Spain has developed a lot of hardware like memory
expansions, VDP
boards, CPU boards, slotexpanders, kits, FDD controllers, SCSI interfaces
etc... Apart from
Padial, Angel Culla made some cheap hardware with good quality.
ACCNET si no me equivoco. Un kit de conexión de un modem interno de PC para
MSX.
Spain has a good MSX support, many MSX Clubs distribuited over whole Spain
offers support for
the MSX users and developers, this is the current list of active groups:
Quizás no estén activos pero ha habido gente que en su momento han tenido
bastante presencia en el MSX español como para ser tenidos en cuenta en este
repaso por el periodo no coemrcial. Por ejemplo KAI Magazines, que durante
mucho tiempo fué un prolífico programador, o los mismos MATRA Corp, que han
hecho juegos de MSX de factura muy profesional tanto a nivel de programación
y de imágen del producto. Seguro que conoceis algunos más.
Galicia -> Club Hnostar
¿Activos??
Basque Country -> VAJ Club
Madrid -> MSX Power Replay
Barcelona -> Asociacion Amigos del MSX
Baleares -> Club Mesxes
There are also more groups making magazines, hardware or software, even
single developers are
important:
Castilla y Leon -> Daniel Zorita and Marcos Vega Coso (software)
Cantabria -> Manuel Pazos (software)
Barcelona -> Moai Tech (magazine and software)
Añadiría a IMANOK, a MSXKun en Barcelona ( los últimos juegos presentados en
una RU son suyos), así como se puede olvidar de Pazos y Armando como
desarrolladores de Hardware ( no en vano su FlashRom debe ser el Hardware
español para MSX más vendido de los últimos años ^_^)
La implementación del KunBasic para MSX 2 ( o sea, NestorBasic) creo que
debería mencionarse ya que las últimas ( y ya hace muucho tiempo que solo
salen cosas para NestorBasic) producciones de soft MSX en españa están
basadas en este producto.
Espero que con lo que los demás te digan puedas confeccionar un artículo
unitario, pero.... Los japos te pedían una gran cantidad de datos muy
particulares, verdad? Crees que lo que quieren es un artículo para
publicarlo, o tan solo les interesa datos para publicar comparativas entre
los demás paises??
Ah! Te envio además imágenes varias ( para que veas que no estoy enfadado
^_^)
Skyblasc
