The fans on my Synology NAS were acting up, and so I bought someãreplacement fans. I figured for grins I'd try and open it up andãlubricate the old fans, see if that would make a difference in the monthãit'll take to get the new ones via slow boat from China.ããTook off the case with 5 screws. The back panel came off with another 3.ãFans were held in place by 4 nylon screws per fan. Removed the fans,ãdid a deep de-dusting of the fans, heat sinks and inside the chassis,ãthen carefully removed the labels from the fans and put 2 dropsãof oil into each fan's axle.ããEverything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldãstop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakãanything or have screws left over!ãããã... Abandon desireã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldã pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã pF> anything or have screws left over!ããNice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds when the fans kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actual problem, but once I do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it. I'm curious - did you consider replacing the fans at all or did you just want to fix the ones you have?ãã--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)ã * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O Mã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: esc to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Jan 22 2023 11:18 amãã > pF> Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldã > pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã > pF> anything or have screws left over!ã >ã > Nice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds when the fansã > kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actual problem, but once Iã > do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it. I'm curious - did you considerã > replacing the fans at all or did you just want to fix the ones you have?ããThey really do not make them like they used to, so it's best to replace them.ããyou can get a monitoring program that will tell you the rpm of the fans. You can't entirely trust THOSE cheap sensors, though.ããif you hear sounds they are probably running on borrowed time.ãmake sure your computer is setup to turn off if the cpu heat gets too high.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ãã pF> Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldã pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã pF> anything or have screws left over!ãã es> Nice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds whenã es> the fans kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actualã es> problem, but once I do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it.ã es> I'm curious - did you consider replacing the fans at all or didã es> you just want to fix the ones you have?ããWell, you snipped it out, but quoting from his opening paragraph... "and ãso I bought some replacement fans." ... ;-)ããã... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelightã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Well, you snipped it out, but quoting from his opening paragraph... "and ã Ga> so I bought some replacement fans." ... ;-)ããHaha, nice catch, guess I missed that bit ;)ãã--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)ã * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O Mã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Bencollver to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 23 2023 11:50 amãã > Nice job! I remember being in a similar situation with a "homebrew" amd64ã > server that i inherited. These had metal screws. Servicing the fans helpedã > for a while but i eventually had to replace them. I've broken newer andã > smaller hardware that has more plastic parts, so i understand the feeling ofã > relief when it still works after reassembly.ããyeah but these fans are the cheapest money can buy. they also run nonstop.ãif you experience any problems, you should just replace instead of trying to repair. if something is worn out, grease and cleaning won't get you anywhere.ãI've been an electronics tech for over 17 years and I used to do RMAs everyãonce in a while. I serviced electronics controls for transmissions and other things. I've seen it all.ããã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ãã es> Nice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds when theã es> fans kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actual problem,ã es> but once I do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it. I'm curious - didã es> you consider replacing the fans at all or did you just want to fix theã es> ones you have?ããI ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here forãa month. I figured I'd do a dry-run first and see how hard it would beãto take apart this time.ããI'll keep the new ones around for when the fans finally fail.ããããã... Question the heroic approachã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Bencollver on Mon Jan 23 2023 12:25 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Bencollver to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 23 2023 11:50 amã > ã > > Nice job! I remember being in a similar situation with a "homebrew" amd6ã > > server that i inherited. These had metal screws. Servicing the fans helã > > for a while but i eventually had to replace them. I've broken newer andã > > smaller hardware that has more plastic parts, so i understand the feelingã > > relief when it still works after reassembly.ã > ã > yeah but these fans are the cheapest money can buy. they also run nonstop.ã > if you experience any problems, you should just replace instead of trying toã > I've been an electronics tech for over 17 years and I used to do RMAs everyã > once in a while. I serviced electronics controls for transmissions and otherã > ã > ãWhat is the reason for plastic screws? Do they abosrb shock, or deadenãvibration? Back in the 90's some hard drive makerd would mount their drived in ãa frame with rubber bushings.ããThe worst vibration I ran into was from a game cd that had heavy silk screeninãg that was uneven. It worked fine in most cd drives, except for one. Notãsure if that drive was out of spec, but when that cd was inserted, itãrumbled like a washing machine with an unbalanced wash load.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: poindexter FORTRAN to esc on Mon Jan 23 2023 06:15 amãã >ã > I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here forã > a month. I figured I'd do a dry-run first and see how hard it would beã > to take apart this time.ã >ã > I'll keep the new ones around for when the fans finally fail.ããwhy didnt you just use amazonã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Jan 24 2023 12:17 pmãã >ã > What is the reason for plastic screws? Do they abosrb shock, or deadenã > vibration? Back in the 90's some hard drive makerd would mount their drivedã > in a frame with rubber bushings.ã >ã > The worst vibration I ran into was from a game cd that had heavy silkã > screenin g that was uneven. It worked fine in most cd drives, except forã > one. Notã > sure if that drive was out of spec, but when that cd was inserted, itã > rumbled like a washing machine with an unbalanced wash load.ããit was just to be stupid. they tried all kinds of weird shit.ãlook at all the weird levers and trays that have always been in dells.ããi wouldn't trust a non metal screw, there's a risk they'd snap eventually ifãsomeone messed with them enough.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Jan 24 2023 04:29 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Jan 24 2023 12:17 pmã > ã > >ã > > What is the reason for plastic screws? Do they abosrb shock, or deadenã > > vibration? Back in the 90's some hard drive makerd would mount their driã > > in a frame with rubber bushings.ã > >ã > > The worst vibration I ran into was from a game cd that had heavy silkã > > screenin g that was uneven. It worked fine in most cd drives, except forã > > one. Notã > > sure if that drive was out of spec, but when that cd was inserted, itã > > rumbled like a washing machine with an unbalanced wash load.ã > ã > it was just to be stupid. they tried all kinds of weird shit.ã > look at all the weird levers and trays that have always been in dells.ã > ã > i wouldn't trust a non metal screw, there's a risk they'd snap eventually ifã > someone messed with them enough.ã > ãWhen I worked for ZDS, they had some systems they produced under the internalãname of NDL - new design line. This was their attempt make a tool-free orãminimal tool system similar to IBM's PS2 cases with interlocvking trays, clips,ãand friction fit pieces. Anyways, lack of screws and fasteners resulted inãcases that could flex, in effect boards and connectors could loosen up overãtime. The field service bulletins would point out a probelm spotted in the fiãeld, then provide the enginering solution. Several of the "solutions" wereãto replace plastic clips with screws and tie down loose pieces with zip ties.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Jan 25 2023 12:08 amãã > When I worked for ZDS, they had some systems they produced under theã > internal name of NDL - new design line. This was their attempt make aã > tool-free or minimal tool system similar to IBM's PS2 cases withã > interlocvking trays, clips, and friction fit pieces. Anyways, lack ofã > screws and fasteners resulted in cases that could flex, in effect boards andã > connectors could loosen up over time. The field service bulletins wouldã > point out a probelm spotted in the fi eld, then provide the engineringã > solution. Several of the "solutions" wereã > to replace plastic clips with screws and tie down loose pieces with zipã > ties.ããmy experience with engineers is they are generally not brilliant and do not see things that are obvious to other people. maybe this because they are getting their education just for the job and they have no real interest. i've also worked with engineers who just like to tinker around and play but don't produce results.ããat my old job we had to hire an old retired engineer to come up with a fix for complicated issue. it was a magnet. it worked better than every other application they tried.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Hello MRO!ãã** On Tuesday 24.01.23 - 16:27, MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:ãã >> I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here forã >> a month...ãã M> why didnt you just use amazonããIt seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China, ãliterally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery charger ãnot long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and the ãproduct is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped from ãChina. It too will be about a month in transit.ãããã
--- OpenXP 5.0.57ã * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Jan 25 2023 07:23 amãã > Hello MRO!ã >ã > ** On Tuesday 24.01.23 - 16:27, MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:ã >ã > >> I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here forã > >> a month...ã >ã > M> why didnt you just use amazonã >ã > It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China,ã > literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery chargerã > not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and theã > product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped fromã > China. It too will be about a month in transit.ããright now what a lot of sellers do is use alibaba or whatever it's called. when someone orders from amazon, alibaba drop ships it. but in 2021 i had a mouse get in my garage and chew up the wires in my car. i had to replace blower motor, blower resistor and wiring, and the main fuse and a solenoid.ããthe solonoid and main fuse (which i couldnt get ANYWHERE else) were from china and had 2 week wait time. i got it in 3 days.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Jan 25 2023 05:35 amãã > ã > my experience with engineers is they are generally not brilliant and do not ã > s who just like to tinker around and play but don't produce results.ã > ã > at my old job we had to hire an old retired engineer to come up with a fix fããIt is like the car crash testing before the emphasis on side and cornerãimpacts. Cars were designed to survive head on impacts, and tested insuch a wãay that proved they were effective. Over time they realized cars rarelyãcrashed head on and the corners were the source of criticial damage andãinjuries. I have to wonder about how the testing compared to real worldãhandling and vibration. One time we had a Gateway that would work in theãlab, then fail in the field. It was their attempt at a tool free metalãframe, and developed a twist in the sheet metal which would cause the videoãcard to shift position when moved. The only way to resolve the issue wasãsend it back to Gateway and get a machine that didn't have a twisted chassis.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Jan 25 2023 07:23 amãã > Hello MRO!ã > ã > ** On Tuesday 24.01.23 - 16:27, MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:ã > ã > >> I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here forã > >> a month...ã > ã > M> why didnt you just use amazonã > ã > It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China,ã > literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery chargerã > not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and theã > product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped fromã > China. It too will be about a month in transit.ã > ã > ã > ãAzon is a marketplace, and in order to carry A to Z you will run into itemsãmade from Chinesium. For example I needed a USB to serial interface, and itãarived in a puffy airmail container from a Chinese vendorãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-ãã-->SNIP ãã Og> It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China, ã Og> literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery charger ã Og> not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and the ã Og> product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped from ã Og> China. It too will be about a month in transit.ããNot bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made inãChina? I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but theãinvestment is worth it (IMO).ããCougarããã... "Don't mince words, Ogg ... what do you *REALLY* think?"ãã___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Moondog to Ogg on Wed Jan 25 2023 06:00 pmãã >ã > Azon is a marketplace, and in order to carry A to Z you will run into itemsã > made from Chinesium. For example I needed a USB to serial interface, and itã > arived in a puffy airmail container from a Chinese vendorããeverything comes from china. they are superior to everyone else.ãit's also cheap for them to ship their products to the usa and other countries.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to OGG on Thu Jan 26 2023 06:46 amãã > Not bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made inã > China?ããlookup the chinese industrial revolution.ãlook at how the take over steel, concrete, pork bellies, etc.ããthey live, we sleepãã>I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but theããyou're literally buying chinese shit and it's branded as american under some technicality. in some form it's coming from china. it could be down to the base elements to the various components to it being entirely created and assembled there except for 1 operation in the usa.ããI've worked in manufacturing for 28 years and I have a lot of experience with a lot of different things. china does it better. my former company tried for almost 10 years to have an american made company make something simple with no flaws for a decent price. they could not do it correctly 75% of the time. they sure sent nice gift baskets during christmas, though.ããI've seen it all and i've worked for the big names. You would be surprised.ãyou are NOT buying american.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Hello MRO!ãã M> the solonoid and main fuse (which i couldnt get ANYWHERE else) were fromã M> china and had 2 week wait time. i got it in 3 days. -+-ããYou probably got lucky with a domestic shipment.ãã--ãã--- OpenXP 5.0.57ã * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to OGG on Thu Jan 26 2023 06:46 amãã Co> Not bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made inã Co> China? I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but theã Co> investment is worth it (IMO).ããApparently it's less expensive for American companies to have things made in China. And with China's population, they have a lot of people to develop manufacturing facilities and work for them, so they have a high workforce volume too.ããEven if you buy something made in the US, it may contain parts that were made in China, especially if it's electronic.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Jan 25 2023 07:24 pmãã > Hello MRO!ã >ã > M> the solonoid and main fuse (which i couldnt get ANYWHERE else) were fromã > M> china and had 2 week wait time. i got it in 3 days. -+-ã >ã > You probably got lucky with a domestic shipment.ããwhat probably happened is they had to order them in bulk from a supplier and put them into amazon's warehouse. someone else ordered them previously and triggered the order. Later, the remaining ones were in stock at amazon and I got one.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to OGG on Thu Jan 26 2023 06:46 amãã > -=> Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-ã > ã > -->SNIPã > ã > Og> It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China,ã > Og> literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery chargerã > Og> not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and theã > Og> product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped fromã > Og> China. It too will be about a month in transit.ã > ã > Not bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made inã > China? I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but theã > investment is worth it (IMO).ã > ã > Cougarã > ã > ã > ... "Don't mince words, Ogg ... what do you *REALLY* think?"ã > ã > ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20ã > ããAs stated, cost is the big thing. My father worked for a die cast company,ãand the exceutive staff was invited to China to visit a foundry being built. ãThe construction crew cleared an empty area, then built apartment buildings. ãThey were used by the construction company while the foundry was being built.ã While hte foundry was being brought up to production, the construction ofãtool and die shops were being built next door to it. When finished, theãconstruction crew moves out of the apartments, then the employees move in. Thãe complex is a self contained town in the middle of nowhere with industrialãrail access.ããThe apartments would be 2-3 person by US standards, but will host 8 Chineseãworkers. The company quoted them on the cost of building a die cast machineãand all the cores, and the price was less than the cost of raw materialsãanywhere else in the world. When a company can build a finished product forãless than raw materials, imagine adding on to it all the reuired governmentalãfees and bring it all up to compliance. Add the cost of US employees andãbenefits. Unless you produce a consumable product with a strong customerãbase and constant demand, several companies find manufacturing overseas isãmore lucrative.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Cougar428 on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:18 amãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Cougar428 to OGG on Thu Jan 26 2023 06:46 amã > ã > > Not bashing here, but why is it that everything we use is made inã > > China?ã > ã > lookup the chinese industrial revolution.ã > look at how the take over steel, concrete, pork bellies, etc.ã > ã > they live, we sleepã > ã > >I try to buy items made in the US. They cost more but theã > ã > you're literally buying chinese shit and it's branded as american under someã > operation in the usa.ã > ã > I've worked in manufacturing for 28 years and I have a lot of experience witã > price. they could not do it correctly 75% of the time. they sure sent niceã > ã > I've seen it all and i've worked for the big names. You would be surprised.ã > you are NOT buying american.ããDuring Christmas time the stores sell these big tin's of cookies fromãScandinavian countries. I lokoed at the small print and one said, "packagedãin Denmark." The cookies and tins were made in China, Vietnam, or theãPhillipines, then sent to Denmark to be packed in order to be a product ofãDenmark.ããMaglite was an all-American manufacturer. they produced or sourcedãeverything from the US except the bulbs. Nobody made them in the states anyãmore. What had screwed them over is the cheap LED flashlight market snuck up ãon them. For a fraction of the cost, I could get a rugged LED light madeãfrom a lesser grade aluminum that would still take a beating. If not, I feelãbetter about replacing a $13 light than a $45 lightãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

china does it better. my former company tried for almoã> st 10 years to have an american made company make something simple with noãlaã> for a decent price.ããIt is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same priceãpoint when the entity you are competing against pays their employees soãmuch less and can also use slave labor from the re-education camps.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * This just in: Research causes cancer in rats!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Jan 26 2023 11:43 amãã Mo> During Christmas time the stores sell these big tin's of cookies fromã Mo> Scandinavian countries. I lokoed at the small print and one said,ã Mo> "packaged in Denmark." The cookies and tins were made in China, Vietnam,ã Mo> or the Phillipines, then sent to Denmark to be packed in order to be aã Mo> product of Denmark.ããI wonder how those cookies stay fresh, being shipped all around the world like that.ããAnd that reminds me of my car.. My car was assembled in Germany, but I found the engine was built in Mexico and the transmission was built in Japan. So those components were shipped to Germany where they assembled the car, then the car was transported here to the US where it was sold. And apparently it was still profitable to build the car that way.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Jan 26 2023 04:32 pmãã > > china does it better. my former company tried for almoã > > st 10 years to have an american made company make something simple with noã > laã > > for a decent price.ã >ã > It is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same priceã > point when the entity you are competing against pays their employees soã > much less and can also use slave labor from the re-education camps.ã >ã >ããi'm not even sure that what we say about china is right anymore.ãit could just be propaganda.ããsome companies here in the usa don't pay people enough. the other day i saw a job on indeed that required a BA that paid 17/hr.ããI don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.ããpersonally i have seen it better and cheaper from china. american companies can charge more just because. I've examined electronics from american companies and chinese and there's either no difference or chinese electronics are done better. INDIA, i do not trust. china is just better at everything.ãeveryone snoozed and losed.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Jan 26 2023 02:19 pmãã > Mo> Vietnam, or the Phillipines, then sent to Denmark to be packed in orderã > Mo> to be a product of Denmark.ã >ã > I wonder how those cookies stay fresh, being shipped all around the worldã > like that.ããpreservatives. maybe it IS a bit stale, but people don't notice.ããchex mix is left out in the open for days at general mills but people still eat that junk. it's half stale. same as their other products.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Jan 26 2023 02:19 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Jan 26 2023 11:43 amã > ã > Mo> During Christmas time the stores sell these big tin's of cookies fromã > Mo> Scandinavian countries. I lokoed at the small print and one said,ã > Mo> "packaged in Denmark." The cookies and tins were made in China, Vietnamã > Mo> or the Phillipines, then sent to Denmark to be packed in order to be aã > Mo> product of Denmark.ã > ã > I wonder how those cookies stay fresh, being shipped all around the world liã > ã > And that reminds me of my car.. My car was assembled in Germany, but I founã > here to the US where it was sold. And apparently it was still profitable toã > ã > Nightfoxã > ãIt's probably packed in nitrogen and shipped priority shipping or by air. ãFrom there it is packed in airtight tins and sealed.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Jan 26 2023 14:19:10ããModern supply chains are notorious for being extremely complex and fractured. Every part of the product making is made in a completely different country. A famous example is the "Grown in Argentina, packaged in Thailand beans thing that appeared a year ago. Honestly this approach seems inefficent considering transporation costs (altrough you could argue that do it being shipped in bulk, invalidates the costs).ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Wirehead's Denã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pmãã MR> electronics are done better. INDIA, i do not trust. china is just betterã MR> at everything. everyone snoozed and losed.ããOne thing is probably population. China has 1.412 billion people (vs. 331.9 million in the US) - China just has so many more people that can go into a particular field in the workforce and develop methods to manufacture things. And just the sheer number of people who could be available for manufacturing jobs is higher than many other countries.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: BoomieMovie to Nightfox on Fri Jan 27 2023 12:03 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Jan 26 2023 14:19:10ã >ã > Modern supply chains are notorious for being extremely complex andã > fractured. Every part of the product making is made in a completelyã > different country. A famous example is the "Grown in Argentina, packaged inã > Thailand beans thing that appeared a year ago. Honestly this approach seemsã > inefficent considering transporation costs (altrough you could argue that doã > it being shipped in bulk, invalidates the costs).ããwe had a washer that had to come from belgium. each time they would only send a small amount. this is a washer that could be made locally very easy.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Jan 27 2023 09:18 amãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pmã >ã > MR> electronics are done better. INDIA, i do not trust. china is justã > MR> better at everything. everyone snoozed and losed.ã >ã > One thing is probably population. China has 1.412 billion people (vs. 331.9ã > million in the US) - China just has so many more people that can go into aã > particular field in the workforce and develop methods to manufacture things.ã > And just the sheer number of people who could be available for manufacturingã > jobs is higher than many other countries.ããno, china just decided they needed to do an overhaul. look it up.ãamerica has a lot of manufacturing as well. so does japan. japan is small and has like 125million people.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Jan 26 2023 04:32 pmã > ã > > > china does it better. my former company tried for almoã > > > st 10 years to have an american made company make something simple withã > > laã > > > for a decent price.ã > >ã > > It is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same priceã > > point when the entity you are competing against pays their employees soã > > much less and can also use slave labor from the re-education camps.ã > >ã > >ã > ã > i'm not even sure that what we say about china is right anymore.ã > it could just be propaganda.ã > ã > some companies here in the usa don't pay people enough. the other day i saw ã > ã > I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.ã > ã > personally i have seen it better and cheaper from china. american companies ã > o not trust. china is just better at everything.ã > everyone snoozed and losed.ããThe technology has gone up in the last 30 years. I have a friend always goesãthe cheap route, and I assume it's because he's never tried or ownedãsomething with premium quality and workamnship. Most big game hunters andãcompetition shooter spend as much on the optics and mounts as they do on theiãr rifle. He, on the other hand, would buy the cheapest no name scope andãmount he could find. Back in the late 90's a cheap scope base could be toldãapart from a good one from a distance. The screws would have coarse threadsãthat looked like they were made on one of Eli Whitney's first lathes duringãthe 1800's. The metal would be cheap as well. Soft, allowing for strippedãthreads and snapped off screws or bolts.ããThe more modern stuff is held to better specs, and so are the fasteners. The ãmetalurgy is still off. AL380 or 6061 versus 7075 aluminum. While you won'tãnotice the difference on a range queen firearm, you'll appreciate the qualityãbetter on a hunt or situation where things get banged around and re expected ãto keep their zero.ããThere is still a difference between the real low end and high end gear, butãthere is also several items that fall somewhere in between with regards toãprice and quality. China can produce good stuff if held accountable for it. ãI know of a gear dealer that has optics and mounts built to order in China,ãand if it doesn't meet his QA standards, he'll stop payment and turn awayãshipments. Vendors pay attention when they don't get paid.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pmãã > I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.ããPretty much this.ããChina used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk which wasãgood for barely anything. They aren't anymore.ããSo many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to produceãmerchandise up to European and American standards that at some point theyãrealized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce itãthemselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in china,ãand sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you willãfind that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman isãnot looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans boughtãfor them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.ããA contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chinesseãconstruction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up withãquality stuff."ããã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

It is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same priceã >point when the entity you are competing against pays their employees soã >much less and can also use slave labor from the re-education camps.ããCommenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, Chinaãhave a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run at aãloss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of business andãthen they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do not planãthat far in advance. They want immediate profits.ããWages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures sayãthe average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactlyãslave labour.ããThey do work efficiently.. I recall years back, probably when wages were quiteãa bit lower there, a big US manufacturer of sporting goods was making footballãhelmets in the USA. But, they were shipping the helmets to China to have theãmouth guards attached, and then shipping them back since that was cheaper thanãdoing it in the USA.ããAlso, the Chinese gov't hates paying people to do nothing. They will keep aãfactory operating that is failing miserably, and then dump the products onãforeign markets at ridiculously low prices, rather than let the company shutãdown.ããIronically, they will also mechanize a plant to make more products using fewerãworkers to increase the potential profits where Unions here would never standãfor that.ããIt's hard to compete with that sort of mentality.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Help!... I'm sinking in QWKsand!ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Commenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, Chinaã> have a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run at aã> loss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of businessãndã> then they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do not planã> that far in advance. They want immediate profits.ããI agree that the US (and maybe Western in general) attitude and practicesãare also a problem.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * Hold on! Doesn't NT mean NinTendo ?ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

<Snip>ãã Ar> So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industryã Ar> to produce merchandise up to European and American standards that atã Ar> some point they realized they could use that infrastructure andã Ar> experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturerã Ar> funds a clock factory in china, and sends an European foreman toã Ar> oversee the production of watches, you will find that factory producesã Ar> watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman is not looking, usingã Ar> European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bought for them. Itã Ar> happens in Morocco all the time too. ããI worked for a plastics company that opened a factory in China andãhelped them with setting up the factory for quality control and allãthe processes which were already in effect at US plants. Soãbasically we gave them everything they needed to get started asãcompetition. (if they needed it to begin with)ããDoesn't seem like good business, but apparently it was cheaper thanãshipping goods to China for sale in the asian market.ããããã... °±²Û Does the name Pavlov ring a bell? °±²Ûãã___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Arelor to MRO on Sat Jan 28 2023 07:15 amãã >ã > So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry toã > produce merchandise up to European and American standards that at some pointããThey learn from their mistakes;they copy their competitors and then they do better than their competitors. I've seen a tour of chinese come into a company. they wanted to run a product we had but they couldn't. Nobody knew who those people's positions are in their company, but i'm sure they were all high lvl engineers. They even had spy cameras and they took everything they needed before they were told no photos.ããChina is #1 in the steel industry and they have been for a while.ãThey are not stupid and they are in it to win it.ããAlmost every other country is slow and stupid.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-ãã Mo> It's probably packed in nitrogen and shipped priority shipping or byã Mo> air. From there it is packed in airtight tins and sealed.ããI'm a coffee afficionado (was going to say "snob", but I like all sortãof coffee, even Bad Coffee) and have been paying attention lately toãroasting dates.ããI just bought a new espresso machine, so I'm buying fresh beans insteadãof ground.ããIt's interesting seeing the variety of roasting dates on store-boughtãcoffees. Some of the coffee beans packed in nitrogen have pull dates aãyear or two from now!ããI'm spoiled. I have a handful of local roasters and I can get beansãroasted a couple of days ago.ãããã... UNPRISON YOUR THINK RHINOã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to DUMAS WALKER on Sat Jan 28 2023 12:48 amãã > Commenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, Chinaã > have a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run at aã > loss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of businessã > and then they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do notã > plan that far in advance. They want immediate profits.ããA lot of american manufacturing companies live hand to mouth. Some even take out monthly loans and pay it back to handle overhead and payroll. That's not being successful. I was in a company that was stuck in the same old cycles for almost 100 years. They didn't give a shit about a year from now. They wanted to make as much money as they could THIS QUARTER. Then when shit went sideways they scrambled.ãã > Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures sayã > the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactlyã > slave labour.ããthere's a lot of racism and propaganda that gives us the wrong view of china.ãã >ã > Ironically, they will also mechanize a plant to make more products usingã > fewer workers to increase the potential profits where Unions here wouldã > never stand for that.ããunions in the usa are not what they used to be. There are a lot of right to work states and that just doesn't work with a union structure. people dont have to join the union but they have to be protected by it. in this structure people are held back due to the other union nuances, especially in pay. You can be stuck in a job for 5 years before you make 2 dollars more.ãã > It's hard to compete with that sort of mentality.ããThey adopted a winning mentality. And it was behind the backs of regular people. china took over many industries and we were oblivious to it.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Sat Jan 28 2023 10:30 amãã >ã > I agree that the US (and maybe Western in general) attitude and practicesã > are also a problem.ããwe couldn't get a company local to do what they consider small batches 6 times a year. we would pay for all the tooling. they all told us to fuck off. they would rather make no many than some money. once they were a vendor in our company they would be used for other departments as well. so we used china.ããthe american worth ethic is bullshit.ããi went on craigslist and found a guy with a company for sidingã"no job too big or too small"ããI needed siding replaced here and there. The neighbor's chimney collapsed and hit the side of our house and damaged siding on the side of the house.ããThe job was too small! he also refused to open up a link from imgurã"I don't do that"ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Sat Jan 28 2023 08:04 amãã > I just bought a new espresso machine, so I'm buying fresh beans insteadã > of ground.ã >ã > It's interesting seeing the variety of roasting dates on store-boughtã > coffees. Some of the coffee beans packed in nitrogen have pull dates aã > year or two from now!ã >ã > I'm spoiled. I have a handful of local roasters and I can get beansã > roasted a couple of days ago.ã >ããit's all a work. you think you are being spoiled but you are paying more for something of equal or less quality.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

I worked for a plastics company that opened a factory in China andã> helped them with setting up the factory for quality control and allã> the processes which were already in effect at US plants. Soã> basically we gave them everything they needed to get started asã> competition. (if they needed it to begin with)ããSomething similar happened in Japan after WWII. Their factories gotãrebuilt with better state-of-the-art stuff while the US factories did notãget upgraded. They also listened to Demming where American companies wouldãnot.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * Do unto others BEFORE they do unto YOU.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures sayã> > the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactlyã> > slave labour.ãã> there's a lot of racism and propaganda that gives us the wrong view of china.ããThat is true, but they also do have some slave labor there. China is notãat all nice to their minority groups. Look up Ughyrs (sp?) for some ideaãas to how they treat non-Han peoples.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * Energize! said Picard....and this pink bunny appeared...ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to OGG on Thu Jan 26 2023 06:46 amãã > -=> Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-ãBecause American workers won't work 12 hour days for chump change and a bowlãof ramen noodles, or stand still for constant government surveillance.ã And American consumers are as much to blame....they'll pay 2 grand for anãApple iPhone thats designed in Cupertino, and assembled in Flungdung by aãgirl who's supporting herself and her aged parents on 3 bucks an hour.ã How I wish we COULD "Buy American". (sighhhh..)ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to DUMAS WALKER on Sat Jan 28 2023 12:48 amãã > DW>It is difficult to make something of the same quality at the same priceã > >point when the entity you are competing against pays their employees soã > >much less and can also use slave labor from the re-education camps.ã > ã > Commenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, Chinaã > have a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run at aã > loss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of business aã > then they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do not planã > that far in advance. They want immediate profits.ã > ã > Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures sayã > the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactlyã > slave labour.ã > ã > They do work efficiently.. I recall years back, probably when wages were quiã > a bit lower there, a big US manufacturer of sporting goods was making footbaã > helmets in the USA. But, they were shipping the helmets to China to have theã > mouth guards attached, and then shipping them back since that was cheaper thã > doing it in the USA.ã > ã > Also, the Chinese gov't hates paying people to do nothing. They will keep aã > factory operating that is failing miserably, and then dump the products onã > foreign markets at ridiculously low prices, rather than let the company shutã > down.ã > ã > Ironically, they will also mechanize a plant to make more products using fewã > workers to increase the potential profits where Unions here would never stanã > for that.ã > ã > It's hard to compete with that sort of mentality.ããThe country also restricts travel from one province to another to regluateãjobs and commerce. This ia a way to keep farmers' families in farming, soãtheir kids won't leave in puruit of better manufacturing jobs.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Jan 28 2023 01:12 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Arelor to MRO on Sat Jan 28 2023 07:15 amã > ã > >ã > > So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry toã > > produce merchandise up to European and American standards that at some poã > ã > They learn from their mistakes;they copy their competitors and then they do ã > are in their company, but i'm sure they were all high lvl engineers. They evã > ã > China is #1 in the steel industry and they have been for a while.ã > They are not stupid and they are in it to win it.ã > ã > Almost every other country is slow and stupid.ããMy father used to work for Clark Equipment, and he recalled a tour wentãthrough of Japanese tourists. This was in the mid to late 60's and securityãwas lax on what they took pictures of. There were proprietary practices on hoãw they drilled and inlettted axles, and let them take pictures of the process.ããThere was guy they called Tex, who lied about his age to join the Marines inãWWII. The guy was 15 or 16 when he enlisted. He was running a drill press,ãand kept staring at one of the engineers/ tourists. He walked up to the guy aãnd asked him if his father served in the war, and if he survived. TheãJapanese guy said his father served, and survived. Tex then says he could'veãsworn he killed the guys father. That sounded like something he would say. ãi heard stories of this guy getting pissed off at the engineers orãmanagement, walked off the job and went to the bar to get drunk, then come inãthe next day like nothing had happened. I'm amazed they were so tolerant. ãThat was back in the days you could quit one manufacturing job then haveãanother job the next day.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Rob Mccart on Sat Jan 28 2023 01:17 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Rob Mccart to DUMAS WALKER on Sat Jan 28 2023 12:48 amã > ã > > Commenting on all the messages referring to China, not just this one, Chiã > > have a different attitude than we do about business. A company will run aã > > loss for 10 or 20 years until they put all the competition out of businesã > > and then they raise their prices to make a profit. Western countries do nã > > plan that far in advance. They want immediate profits.ã > ã > A lot of american manufacturing companies live hand to mouth. Some even takeã > They didn't give a shit about a year from now. They wanted to make as much ã > ã > > Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures saã > > the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactlyã > > slave labour.ã > ã > there's a lot of racism and propaganda that gives us the wrong view of chinaã > ã > >ã > > Ironically, they will also mechanize a plant to make more products usingã > > fewer workers to increase the potential profits where Unions here wouldã > > never stand for that.ã > ã > unions in the usa are not what they used to be. There are a lot of right toã > ue to the other union nuances, especially in pay. You can be stuck in a job ã > ã > > It's hard to compete with that sort of mentality.ã > ã > They adopted a winning mentality. And it was behind the backs of regular peoããThe government has their hand in every sort of business. They're a silentãpartner, and each level of government gets their take (above taxes.) I wasãlistening to NPR and they visited area where coal was being strip mined, andãseveral companies were building ski lodges and ski lifts because it wasãbetter money than coal. The gov't would tke their money first, then the coalãminers couldn't afford to stay open.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Jan 29 2023 10:31 amãã > That is true, but they also do have some slave labor there. China is notã > at all nice to their minority groups. Look up Ughyrs (sp?) for some ideaã > as to how they treat non-Han peoples.ã >ããif china does not like a specific ethnic group, they pull no punches.ããbut i've had experience with the hmong in wisconsin, and from my own personal experience, most of those people are just bad news.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Ted Long to Cougar428 on Sun Jan 29 2023 10:43 amãã > Because American workers won't work 12 hour days for chump change and a bowlããI've seen americans work 12hr days for chump change.ãã > of ramen noodles, or stand still for constant government surveillance.ããit seems like we all are being watched by the govt now and they are planning on doing more.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jan 29 2023 01:27 pmãã > My father used to work for Clark Equipment, and he recalled a tour wentã > through of Japanese tourists. This was in the mid to late 60's and securityã > was lax on what they took pictures of. There were proprietary practices onã > ho w they drilled and inlettted axles, and let them take pictures of theã > process.ã >ããthat is so stupid that they allowed that.ããã > There was guy they called Tex, who lied about his age to join the Marines inã > WWII. The guy was 15 or 16 when he enlisted. He was running a drill press,ã > and kept staring at one of the engineers/ tourists. He walked up to the guyã > a nd asked him if his father served in the war, and if he survived. Theã > Japanese guy said his father served, and survived. Tex then says heã > could've sworn he killed the guys father. That sounded like something heã > would say.ã > i heard stories of this guy getting pissed off at the engineers orã > management, walked off the job and went to the bar to get drunk, then comeã > in the next day like nothing had happened. I'm amazed they were soã > tolerant.ããthe japanese were ruthless people who starved and tortured their captives.ãThere was no love for them.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to COUGAR428 on Sun Jan 29 2023 10:29 amãã > > I worked for a plastics company that opened a factory in China andã > > helped them with setting up the factory for quality control and allã > > the processes which were already in effect at US plants. Soã > > basically we gave them everything they needed to get started asã > > competition. (if they needed it to begin with)ã > ã > Something similar happened in Japan after WWII. Their factories gotã > rebuilt with better state-of-the-art stuff while the US factories did notã > get upgraded. They also listened to Demming where American companies wouldã > not.ã > ã > ã > * SLMR 2.1a * Do unto others BEFORE they do unto YOU.ã > ãThe US sent many of their efficiency experts over to Japan. The Japaneseãwere willing to listen and patient, unlike their US counterparts. Instead expãecting quick results, they made short term and long term goals. I thinkãthat's more or less an Asian thing, since Korea i very similar in long trmãplans. I recall an episode of Computer Chronicles where there was aãrepresentative from a company such as Samsung who was talking about theãfuture of LCD displays. Back in the 80's the screen array siz was limited,ãso in order to make larger displays you would make it out of severasl smallerãdisplays. The sales guy was mentioning color displays were around theãcorner, and large flat panel TV's weren't far behind. The other guest was frãom a US company, and thought the trouble of coordinating an array of panels waãs too forward thinking. Of course, the US guy was thinking about short termãissues rather than how things go faster if you invest in them.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Jan 29 2023 10:31 amãã > > > Wages are not that low in China. Just checking the most recent figures ã > > > the average worker there makes just over $54,000 (US) a year, not exactã > > > slave labour.ã > ã > > there's a lot of racism and propaganda that gives us the wrong view of chiã > ã > That is true, but they also do have some slave labor there. China is notã > at all nice to their minority groups. Look up Ughyrs (sp?) for some ideaã > as to how they treat non-Han peoples.ã > ã > ã > * SLMR 2.1a * Energize! said Picard....and this pink bunny appeared...ã > ãWhen the upper management from my father's company toured the foundry and the ãplants around it, they noticed the apartments were shabby and over crowded. ãEmployees were packed into apartment complexes. 8 people were living in aãapartment suitable for 2 or 3 people.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Jan 29 2023 08:01 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jan 29 2023 01:27 pmã > ã > > My father used to work for Clark Equipment, and he recalled a tour wentã > > through of Japanese tourists. This was in the mid to late 60's and securã > > was lax on what they took pictures of. There were proprietary practices ã > > ho w they drilled and inlettted axles, and let them take pictures of theã > > process.ã > >ã > ã > that is so stupid that they allowed that.ã > ã > ã > > There was guy they called Tex, who lied about his age to join the Marinesã > > WWII. The guy was 15 or 16 when he enlisted. He was running a drill preã > > and kept staring at one of the engineers/ tourists. He walked up to the ã > > a nd asked him if his father served in the war, and if he survived. Theã > > Japanese guy said his father served, and survived. Tex then says heã > > could've sworn he killed the guys father. That sounded like something heã > > would say.ã > > i heard stories of this guy getting pissed off at the engineers orã > > management, walked off the job and went to the bar to get drunk, then comã > > in the next day like nothing had happened. I'm amazed they were soã > > tolerant.ã > ã > the japanese were ruthless people who starved and tortured their captives.ã > There was no love for them.ããYeah, they were arogant to allow people outside the company to film anything.ã Anything the engineers saw they could easily reverse engineer.ããRegarding troops, it was first assumed they born and raised in modern cities,ãthey shouldn't be that hard to fight. Problem was they had a head start onãjungle fightiing for several years, and as stated the life of a prisonerãmeant nothing. Tex told me one time they got a batch of grenades where theãfuse was slower. They would allow the same cook off time before throwing,ãthen the enemy would grab them and throw them back. If they got lucky theyãhad enough time to toss them back again.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Quoting Ogg to Mro <=-ã TL> Because American workers won't work 12 hour days for chump change andã TL> a bowl of ramen noodles, or stand still for constant governmentã TL> surveillance. And American consumers are as much to blame....they'llã TL> pay 2 grand for an Apple iPhone thats designed in Cupertino, andã TL> assembled in Flungdung by a girl who's supporting herself and her agedã TL> parents on 3 bucks an hour. How I wish we COULD "Buy American".ã TL> (sighhhh..)ããNow that we've gotten that out of the way, can you tell me what youãreally think?ãã(just kidding!)ããI worked at a plastics plant where we made all the parts in theãfactory. So I know there are products made in america. I justãwonder why business people don't see the promise of building chipsãfor cars in the US since we can't get them from China. (granted,ãthis is just an example, I don't know if those chips actually doãcome from China).ããIf more US companies started building the items we are short of,ãthey could take advantage of opportunity.ããJMO - Cougarããã... Pure drivel tends to drive away ordinary drivel.ãã___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

unions in the usa are not what they used to be. There are a lot of right toã >k states and that just doesn't work with a union structure. people dont haveã >join the union but they have to be protected by it. in this structure peopleã >e held back due to the other union nuances, especially in pay. You can be stã > in a job for 5 years before you make 2 dollars more.ããMy first long term job, part time while in school working at a grocery store,ãtaught me all I needed to know about unions. They have a union similar inãstrength to those for Car Makers and such. I had some 'bad habits'.. I wasãspending a Lot of money building up a muscle car (575 HP Chevelle SS) and aãcustom Triumph Bonneville motorcycle so I needed as much income as possible.ãThe best way to get called first for extra hours when someone didn't show upãwas to be a very hard worker.. Long story short, I was good enough that Iãearned a merit raise, the first one in the company in 15 years, for breakingãcompany production records.. This earned me about 35% more money than othersãin my situation, and led to me being cornered one night in a remote staircaseãand threatened by the local union rep. for making everyone else 'look bad'..ãI told him to get stuffed but after that I had very little use for unions.ããAdmittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeãstill are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soãmost companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areãalways other offers out there.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ What luck for rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitlerã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

That is true, but they also do have some slave labor there. China is notã> > at all nice to their minority groups. Look up Ughyrs (sp?) for some ideaã> > as to how they treat non-Han peoples.ãã> if china does not like a specific ethnic group, they pull no punches.ããIn this case, it is also because they are Muslim and have not given upãtheir religion for the state.ãã> but i've had experience with the hmong in wisconsin, and from my own personalã> perience, most of those people are just bad news.ããAre the Hmong from China, or from SE Asia/Vietnam?ããã * SLMR 2.1a * True Multitasking = 3 PCs and a chair with wheels!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to TED LONG on Mon Jan 30 2023 03:42 pmãã Most of the automotive PIC's and PLA's that used to be made in US silicon foundries are currently made in Red China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. The over-priced Apple stuff that used to be assembled in Cupertino is now made by Foxconn labor mills in Nicaragua and Beijing, right next to the Intel CPU plants.ã Most of the RF and analog chips formerly made in the states by National Semi and Motorola is now made in S. Korea by NXP. Think about it...the guts of our Patriot missiles (1980's tech) that used to be made in Silicon Valley is now made 50 miles away from a nation led by one of the looniest dictators in the world. If Kim Jung Fool decides to nuke Seoul, where are the chips for ourãolder military tech gonna come from?ã IMHO, the Chips Act is 20 years too late.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to MRO on Mon Jan 30 2023 12:53 amãã > similar in strength to those for Car Makers and such. I had some 'badã > habits'.. I was spending a Lot of money building up a muscle car (575 HPã > Chevelle SS) and a custom Triumph Bonneville motorcycle so I needed as muchã > income as possible. The best way to get called first for extra hours whenã > someone didn't show up was to be a very hard worker.. Long story short, Iã > was good enough that I earned a merit raise, the first one in the company inã > 15 years, for breaking company production records.. This earned me about 35%ã > more money than othersã > in my situation, and led to me being cornered one night in a remoteã > staircase and threatened by the local union rep. for making everyone elseã > 'look bad'..ã > I told him to get stuffed but after that I had very little use for unions.ã >ã > Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeã > still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soã > most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areããi dont know where unions are still required. we have osha, we have the department of labor. if things arent good for workers they just go someplace else. my mom was big on unions and my god mother was a union powerhouse. with their employer they needed to threaten to strike for every little thing. each time the contract was up. eventually that company pulled out.ããi've been told not to sweep when i have nothing to do. i was told to drink at a bar during our breaks (no prob with that!), i was told that i was not allowed to work for a 2 week period during the holidays because i was not in the union yet. unions just hold people back now.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Jan 30 2023 04:27 pmãã >ã > In this case, it is also because they are Muslim and have not given upã > their religion for the state.ã >ã > > but i've had experience with the hmong in wisconsin, and from my ownã > > personal perience, most of those people are just bad news.ã >ã > Are the Hmong from China, or from SE Asia/Vietnam?ã >ããi think the ones that fled here to the usa are from china.ããinternet sez "The Hmong people are an indigenous group in East and Southeast Asia. In China, the Hmong people are classified as a sub-group of the Miao people. The modern Hmong presently reside mainly in Southwest China and countries in Southeast Asia such as Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, and Myanmar. "ããthey are basically a people with no country. the chinese hate them and use a derogitory word to describe them instead of calling them hmong.ããIn wisconsin theres's a lot on welfare and there's a lot of gangs where they are located.ããI've worked with some of them and they are very hard workers. they have very large families, as well.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to MRO on Mon Jan 30 2023 12:53 amãã > Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeã > still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soã > most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areã > always other offers out there.ããTo put it in terms a Communist would understand, the power Unions hold comesãfrom maintaining the monopoly of workforce supply. If enough workers couldãoperate out of the parameters the Union wants, the Union is not effective byãitself (ie. the Union cannot set prices for the workforce if enough workersãnegotiate their own prices by the side). Hence Unions act like mobs to survive.ããI think most big companies nowadays are unable to identify which workers theyãhave are hard workers and which ones are plain burdersome. The reason is thatãWestern companies have bloated themselves with so much management people thatãthe Directives calling the shots only know what midle ranks tell them. That isãVERY BAD. 100% of the medium-to-big companies I know personally have veryãsevere issues with this. Maybe a radiodiagnostics service has threeãradiologists in it, with one doing 70% of the work. This fact gets lost becauseãnobody is paying attention. Then budget cuts come and the hard-working oneãthreatens to leave if they don't give her adecuate equipment or whateverã(because there is severe Dr. scarcity and she can switch employments fasterãthan you can switch underwear). The midle-manager calculates "Ok, this one mustãbe doing 33% of the work, so we let her leave and replace her with a new guy."ãShe leaves and they get a new Dr. fresh out of college which takes 33% of theãload, leaving the department defficitary because the group now has noãcapability to push his own way up.ããI am not complaining. Karme is a bitch. The West will pay the price forãmanagement overbloat. The only problem I have with that is I am trapped there.ããã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Ted Long to Cougar428 on Mon Jan 30 2023 04:25 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Cougar428 to TED LONG on Mon Jan 30 2023 03:42 pmã > ã > Most of the automotive PIC's and PLA's that used to be made in US silicoã > ua and Beijing, right next to the Intel CPU plants.ã > Most of the RF and analog chips formerly made in the states by National ã > from a nation led by one of the looniest dictators in the world. If Kim Jungã > older military tech gonna come from?ã > IMHO, the Chips Act is 20 years too late.ã > ã > ---ã > þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netããI keep thinking this when I hear of all the EU politicians wanting to removeãcash and replace it with digital payment systems.ããThese guys would leave every economic activity in the hands of whoeverãmanufactured the smartphones, computers and programs used to run such systems,ãwho would completely be external to the EU.ãããã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to MRO on Mon Jan 30 2023 12:53 amãã > MR>unions in the usa are not what they used to be. There are a lot of rightã > >k states and that just doesn't work with a union structure. people dont hã > >join the union but they have to be protected by it. in this structure peã > >e held back due to the other union nuances, especially in pay. You can bã > > in a job for 5 years before you make 2 dollars more.ã > ã > My first long term job, part time while in school working at a grocery storeã > taught me all I needed to know about unions. They have a union similar inã > strength to those for Car Makers and such. I had some 'bad habits'.. I wasã > spending a Lot of money building up a muscle car (575 HP Chevelle SS) and aã > custom Triumph Bonneville motorcycle so I needed as much income as possible.ã > The best way to get called first for extra hours when someone didn't show upã > was to be a very hard worker.. Long story short, I was good enough that Iã > earned a merit raise, the first one in the company in 15 years, for breakingã > company production records.. This earned me about 35% more money than othersã > in my situation, and led to me being cornered one night in a remote staircasã > and threatened by the local union rep. for making everyone else 'look bad'..ã > I told him to get stuffed but after that I had very little use for unions.ã > ã > Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeã > still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soã > most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areã > always other offers out there.ããI worked at a salaried job, then the plant shut down and relocated the repairãservice department to the main plant. The main plant was a "closed shop"ãbeyond the double doors heading out to the plant floor, so we were given theãoption to be integrated in the union or to find another job. ããAt first we thought being unionized was repressive, but later on we saw how muãch certain supervisiors would try to make up conflicting policies dependingãon favoritism or perception. One time we had a lay off, and right before theãlayoff I reach my anniversary, and got a review and promotion to a higher pay ãgrade. That supervisor was retiring, so he had no qualms about me moving upãa pay grade. A month later we got the government contract, and I was calledãback in. The supervisor that took over was the one who played favorites, andãviewed me as a goof off, despite me making rate and working on a variety ofãproduct. One day HR comes out and says they need extra grade 11 techs on theãline, and I refused. That equated to him that I was refusing work, which ãwas grounds for termination. He worked up the paperwork, and wanted me toãsign I refuse to accept a temporary department reassignment. I refused toãsign and got two union stewards involved who knew I was a grade 12. The bossãhad the HR rep come out as well, and he told the boss that he wastedãeveryone's time because I'm a 12, and not an 11. There were other 11's inãthe department next to our that could tranfer to the line and didn't have toãbother a 12 that had less senior 12's if they needed to pull 12's. Thatãsupervisor had several grievances written towards him by the material handlersã and he was reassigned into non-leadership role.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Rob Mccart on Mon Jan 30 2023 06:43 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Rob Mccart to MRO on Mon Jan 30 2023 12:53 amã > ã > > similar in strength to those for Car Makers and such. I had some 'badã > > habits'.. I was spending a Lot of money building up a muscle car (575 HPã > > Chevelle SS) and a custom Triumph Bonneville motorcycle so I needed as muã > > income as possible. The best way to get called first for extra hours whenã > > someone didn't show up was to be a very hard worker.. Long story short, Iã > > was good enough that I earned a merit raise, the first one in the companyã > > 15 years, for breaking company production records.. This earned me about ã > > more money than othersã > > in my situation, and led to me being cornered one night in a remoteã > > staircase and threatened by the local union rep. for making everyone elseã > > 'look bad'..ã > > I told him to get stuffed but after that I had very little use for unionsã > >ã > > Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeã > > still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soã > > most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areã > ã > i dont know where unions are still required. we have osha, we have the depaã > ed to threaten to strike for every little thing. each time the contract was ã > ã > i've been told not to sweep when i have nothing to do. i was told to drink aã > t hold people back now.ããYou're viewing a union as a ceiling regarding what you cannot do, but it isãmore or less a window. There is an upper limit, but there is also a lowerãlimit as to what they can do to you. If polies are well made, consistentlyãenforced, and predictable in outcome, then a union isn't necessary. ãUnfortunately some shops don't play by those rules, and policies andãprocedures are adhered to or ignored on a whim. The bargaining unitãagreement protects the employees from random stuff that cannnot be enforced.ããã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Mon Jan 30 2023 06:48 pmãã > Re: How far I've come...ã > By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Jan 30 2023 04:27 pmã > ã > >ã > > In this case, it is also because they are Muslim and have not given upã > > their religion for the state.ã > >ã > > > but i've had experience with the hmong in wisconsin, and from my ownã > > > personal perience, most of those people are just bad news.ã > >ã > > Are the Hmong from China, or from SE Asia/Vietnam?ã > >ã > ã > i think the ones that fled here to the usa are from china.ã > ã > internet sez "The Hmong people are an indigenous group in East and Southeasã > uch as Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, and Myanmar. "ã > ã > they are basically a people with no country. the chinese hate them and use ã > ã > In wisconsin theres's a lot on welfare and there's a lot of gangs where theyã > ã > I've worked with some of them and they are very hard workers. they have veryããIn the movie Grand Torino, the story takes place in a Wayne County (Detroit)ãneighborhood that is mostly Hmong refugees.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

The country also restricts travel from one province to another to regluateã >jobs and commerce. This ia a way to keep farmers' families in farming, soã >their kids won't leave in puruit of better manufacturing jobs.ããYes, there's no question it's a lousy place to live. That's why so manyãwealthy Chinese move to the USA and Canada. Way too much governmentãcontrol over everything there.. The only unusual thing there, being aãcommunist country, is that they do seem to have a middle class. Usuallyãthere is a tiny percentage of very rich people and the rest are allãsuper poor.ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ .... - Politically correct Group Photoã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Yes, there's no question it's a lousy place to live. That's why so manyã> wealthy Chinese move to the USA and Canada. Way too much governmentã> control over everything there.. The only unusual thing there, being aã> communist country, is that they do seem to have a middle class. Usuallyã> there is a tiny percentage of very rich people and the rest are allã> super poor.ããI think the ones who are loyal to the party can make a good living. Thatãis how it used to work in the USSR. Are the ones that "move" to Canadaãallowed to stay there full-time? I was under the impression they couldãown property and spend "seasons" in Canada and the US (and Italy and otherãcountries) but that they were still considered Chinese citizens and had toãspend some time in their home country per Chinese rules.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * SYSOP (sih' sawp) n. The guy laughing at your typing.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

I think the ones who are loyal to the party can make a good living. Thatã >is how it used to work in the USSR. Are the ones that "move" to Canadaã >allowed to stay there full-time? I was under the impression they couldã >own property and spend "seasons" in Canada and the US (and Italy and otherã >countries) but that they were still considered Chinese citizens and had toã >spend some time in their home country per Chinese rules.ããNo expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrate hereãas easily as anyone else. It might take a while, as there are huge numbers ofãpeople that want to come to Canada (at least until they find out about theãweather.. Ha!) but I'd assume many coming from China would be wealthy whichãprobably helps the situation. But that's for a full time move. If they wantedãto still return to their own country at times then they would probably beãrestricted to no more than 6 months at a time in Canada.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Finish your mail packet; millions in India are offline!ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeã > still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soã > most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areã > always other offers out there.ããAR>To put it in terms a Communist would understand, the power Unions hold comesã >from maintaining the monopoly of workforce supply. If enough workers couldã >operate out of the parameters the Union wants, the Union is not effective byã >itself (ie. the Union cannot set prices for the workforce if enough workersã >negotiate their own prices by the side). Hence Unions act like mobs to survivããIt's a complex issue. Non-union places mainly only survive because theyãdirectly compete with Union places. If they pay less or have terribleãworking conditions, their workers will go elsewhere. Granted it's muchãbetter these days because of half decent minimum wages and safety conditionsãpretty much guaranteed by basic government rules.ããTrue communism is a whole other world. Canada is often referred to byãAmericans as a Socialist Democracy. No question we are more Socialistãon average than the USA, but there is still a Capitalist backbone thereãallowing those who are smarter and/or work harder to do better than theãaverage person. That's usually not an option in a true communist situation.ãGenerally speaking they do a job for a set rate and they want you to workãas hard as possible but, doing so, won't get you ahead.. so the only wayãto 'win' is to do as little work as you can get away with so you are doingãless work than your neighbour for the same money. Production rates thereãare generally pretty dismal compared to here.ããBut Russia is no fun to live in for a lot of reasons. My next door neighbourãlived there, working for a North American company, for several years andãhe said that it's fairly nice there.. if you have money. But the averageãperson there barely scrapes by. He mentioned the owner of a butcher shopãthat he bought from told him once, when complimented on the meat, that heãtries to make it the best he can but couldn't comment much on it becauseãhe couldn't afford to shop in his own store.ããI asked him if he felt safe with his family there, and he said he had aãnice house with virtually no crime and they could hire housekeepers andãgardeners and such for 80 cents an hour. This was only about 8 years ago.ãLater his 'feeling safe' comment was made more clear when he mentionedãthat he lived in a part of the city where only workers and their familiesãfrom other countries lived, and there was a high brick wall around theãwhole area that was patrolled by hired soldiers with automatic weaponsã24 hours a day.ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Sorry... I'll have to look that up in my Necronomiconã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Admittedly, at one time, they were needed and in some places they maybeã > still are, but I always found that hard workers are difficult to find soã > most companies take pretty good care to keep them happy because there areã > always other offers out there.ããMO>I worked at a salaried job, then the plant shut down and relocated the repairã >service department to the main plant. The main plant was a "closed shop"ã >beyond the double doors heading out to the plant floor, so we were given theã >option to be integrated in the union or to find another job.ããMO>At first we thought being unionized was repressive, but later on we saw how mã >ch certain supervisiors would try to make up conflicting policies dependingã >on favoritism or perception...ããYes, dpending on the place Union stuff can be all over the place. They help inãcompanies that will walk all over their employees cutting corners whereverãpossible, but the also can stifle productivity when working harder doesn't getãyou anywhere because wages are set in stone based on time worked there andãit's often near impossible to fire someone for being lazy.ããOne place I worked at, when I was in the plant on my own, I actually set aãworld record in production - multiple branches on 3 continents - and asãwe grew I treated the people I was now supervising much better than theãother divisions did and production stayed well up there, although we hadãto hide when people were between jobs 'slacking off' because when moreãwork came in a day than we could reasonably be expected to handle, weãwould also all work our tails off and get it done. If you push peopleãall the time, their only intelligent recourse is to work slower.ããThat all came to a crashing halt a couple of years later when a Union gotãinto the company. I left and the others changed their attitude and a largeãnumber of customers were lost.. and our biggest competitor heard that I'dãleft and offered me 50% more money if I would go work for them.ãWhy I didn't take that job is a long story but it shows that when youãdo exceptional work usually people know about it and are willing to payãwell for that person. That said, if the company is Huge, it's much harderãto stand out and often exceptional results are taken by the higher ups asãtheir doing, not crediting any individual(s).ããOften management is a victim of the "Peter Principal.ãThere are a couple of definitions of that but the one I refer to isãthat a person will rise in a company to just beyond the level of theirãcompetence, suggesting Most managers are incompetent at their jobs. B)ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Save changes before exit? (Y)es (N)o (W)hat changes?ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

No expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrate hereã> as easily as anyone else. It might take a while, as there are huge numbers ofã> people that want to come to Canada (at least until they find out about theã> weather.. Ha!) but I'd assume many coming from China would be wealthy whichã> probably helps the situation. But that's for a full time move. If they wantedã> to still return to their own country at times then they would probably beã> restricted to no more than 6 months at a time in Canada.ã ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ããThat, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I gotãthe idea that they could not immigrate permanently. I had heard thatãChinese buy condos in BC and then rent them cheap during the seasons theyãare not there because they cannot stay. So I think that is where I got theãidea that none of them could stay. Thanks!ããã * SLMR 2.1a * Yes, you're right. Unfortunately, I don't really care.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to ARELOR on Thu Feb 02 2023 12:51 amãã > It's a complex issue. Non-union places mainly only survive because theyã > directly compete with Union places. If they pay less or have terribleã > working conditions, their workers will go elsewhere. Granted it's muchã > better these days because of half decent minimum wages and safety conditionsã > pretty much guaranteed by basic government rules.ããare you talking about canada or other countries? i'm in the usa and i dont see any non union places only surviving because they directly compete with unions.ãplaces survive because of good business.ããand regarding minimum wage, i only see that in non skilled jobs that many adults wouldn't even take.ãã > he said that it's fairly nice there.. if you have money. But the averageã > person there barely scrapes by. He mentioned the owner of a butcher shopã > that he bought from told him once, when complimented on the meat, that heã > tries to make it the best he can but couldn't comment much on it becauseã > he couldn't afford to shop in his own store.ããoh i'm sure that's a cultural thing were he's acting humble. i'm sure he has the pick of whatever he wants.ãã > from other countries lived, and there was a high brick wall around theã > whole area that was patrolled by hired soldiers with automatic weaponsã > 24 hours a day.ããsounds like a safe place. i wish my neighborhood had that.ãor chicagoã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Thu Feb 02 2023 04:50 pmãã > That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I gotã > the idea that they could not immigrate permanently. I had heard thatã > Chinese buy condos in BC and then rent them cheap during the seasons theyã > are not there because they cannot stay. So I think that is where I got theã > idea that none of them could stay. Thanks!ããthey get property in other countries because it's an investment.ãthey tried that in wisconsin and it's not working out because they dont take good care of their purchases.ããaround here the cities will steal it away from you if you dont take care of it. even if it's not your fault [vandalism].ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Quoting Rob Mccart to Moondog <=-ãã RM> Often management is a victim of the "Peter Principal.ã RM> There are a couple of definitions of that but the one I refer to isã RM> that a person will rise in a company to just beyond the level of theirã RM> competence, suggesting Most managers are incompetent at their jobs. ããNot trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talkingãabout the situation - is there something you would do differenty ifãyou were the one in charge?ããIn a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on theãsidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, butãnever really stepping up to try and change things in a better way.ããJM2C...ããCougarããã... What do you mean? You actually read this tagline?!?ãã___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to ROB MCCART on Sat Feb 04 2023 08:22 amãã > Not trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talkingã > about the situation - is there something you would do differenty ifã > you were the one in charge?ã > ã > In a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on theã > sidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, butã > never really stepping up to try and change things in a better way.ã > ããThe way to do it right is to walk ouf of such firms and try to start your ownãbusiness, which isn't easy, and therefore few people tries.ããYou are not charging a corporation from within unless you are somebody already,ãand if you were, things would work to your liking already.ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

No expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrateã >> here as easily as anyone else. If they wanted to still return toã >> their own country at times then they would probably be restrictedã >> to no more than 6 months at a time in Canada.ã ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ããDW>That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I gotã >the idea that they could not immigrate permanently.ããWell, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Russiaãor Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing soãbecause they don't like the system they are fleeing from and, even if that'sãnot the case, they will likely have a big problem trying to convert us toãtheir Commie ways.. B)ããDW>I had heard that Chinese buy condos in BC and then rent them cheapã >during the seasons they are not there because they cannot stay.ã >So I think that is where I got the idea that none of them could stay.ããIn a lot of cases it is wealthy people there looking for places to investãmoney they've managed to hide from their government where there's a goodãchance the places will go up in price. The limits on how long they canãstay would likely be based on if they want to immigrate permanently andãthe hassle of the waiting period until they could get permission to moveãhere if they do. I expect the super rich in China have a better time ofãthings than the average people there (think of Russian Oligarchs) and,ãalthough they may want to take advantage of things in the more 'free'ãcountries, they may not have any desire to move here permanently, plusãthey may have a major problem getting much more than a tiny percentageãof all their $Billions out of their home country..ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Deja boo-boo - The feeling you've screwed this up before.ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

It's a complex issue. Non-union places mainly only survive because theyã > > directly compete with Union places. If they pay less or have terribleã > > working conditions, their workers will go elsewhere. Granted it's muchã > > better these days because of half decent minimum wages and safety conditioã > > pretty much guaranteed by basic government rules.ããMR>are you talking about canada or other countries? i'm in the usa and i dont seã >ny non union places only surviving because they directly compete with unions.ã >places survive because of good business.ããSorry, to clarify, although my messages come through a US Board, I do liveãin Canada. Having looked at the information online I know there are stillãa lot of US States with quite low minimum wages. Here they are working onãa Federal absolute minimum of $15 per hour - Provinces can choose to setãtheir minimum wage at More than that, but not less.ããMy point on competing with Union places.. My brother worked for yearsãfor Sears Canada and multiple times the Unions tried to get in thereãbut when it came to the workers voting, they chose Not to have a Unionãbecause Sears treated them quite well, possibly better than a Union place.ããMR>and regarding minimum wage, i only see that in non skilled jobs thatã >many adults wouldn't even take.ããQuite true in many cases.. But a devcent minimum wage is the only wayãto avoid Major poverty for those who have to, or can only do, thoseãtypes of jobs. My very first job I started at minimum wage, but I neverãworked for minimum wage again. You hope to get skills to be worth moreãthan that later in that job, or in your next job. BUT, if there's a Unionãin place, what you can make is usually guaranteed but also limited toãwhat your Union has negotiated with your employer. My non-union jobs, Iãgenerally started there making less than most of the people already thereãbut, within a few years, I was making more than most of them. You usuallyãdon't have that option in a Union place.ããRM> > he said that it's fairly nice there.. if you have money. But the averageã > > person there barely scrapes by. He mentioned the owner of a butcher shopã > > that he bought from told him once, when complimented on the meat, that heã > > tries to make it the best he can but couldn't comment much on it becauseã > > he couldn't afford to shop in his own store.ããMR>oh i'm sure that's a cultural thing were he's acting humble. i'm sure heã >has the pick of whatever he wants.ããNot quite.. You are right that he did get some products out of the shop butãhe literally had to sneak them out. If they catch you taking them, youãare 'stealing from the people' and they tend to seriously frown on that..ãall the way to a re-education camp somewhere in the frozen North..ããFrom all, according to their ability, to all, according to their need..ãã(Unless you are already super rich and buddies with the Dictator.. Oops Iãmean the 'President' of Russia..) B)ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ God has always been hard on the poor. - Jean Paul Maratã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I gotã> >the idea that they could not immigrate permanently.ãã> Well, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Russiaã> or Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing soã> because they don't like the system they are fleeing from and, even if that'sã> not the case, they will likely have a big problem trying to convert us toã> their Commie ways.. B)ããCuba is another country I didn't think you were able to permanently leaveãwithout fleeing. I know that used to be true. If they are able to leaveãand are moving to Canada (and for the reasons we suspect), that is great!ãã> In a lot of cases it is wealthy people there looking for places to investã> money they've managed to hide from their government where there's a goodã> chance the places will go up in price. The limits on how long they canã> stay would likely be based on if they want to immigrate permanently andã> the hassle of the waiting period until they could get permission to moveã> here if they do. I expect the super rich in China have a better time ofã> things than the average people there (think of Russian Oligarchs) and,ã> although they may want to take advantage of things in the more 'free'ã> countries, they may not have any desire to move here permanently, plusã> they may have a major problem getting much more than a tiny percentageã> of all their $Billions out of their home country..ããYes, that makes sense. If they've been allowed to make money over there,ãthey probably are not doing too badly in their country and would haveãtrouble maintaining their riches elsewhere.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * Think of it as evolution in action.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Sat Feb 04 2023 09:42 amãã > > that's not the case, they will likely have a big problem trying to convertã > > us to their Commie ways.. B)ã >ã > Cuba is another country I didn't think you were able to permanently leaveã > without fleeing. I know that used to be true. If they are able to leaveã > and are moving to Canada (and for the reasons we suspect), that is great!ã >ããthere's quite a few countries like that. maybe serbia is like that?ãi dunno, i know a guy who co-owned a bar in town and he would have to travel back and forth.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to DUMAS WALKER on Sat Feb 04 2023 01:18 amãã > RM>> No expert but I'd have to think that someone from China could immigrateã > >> here as easily as anyone else. If they wanted to still return toã > >> their own country at times then they would probably be restrictedã > >> to no more than 6 months at a time in Canada.ã > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ã > ã > DW>That, and the fact that China is a communist country, might be where I goã > >the idea that they could not immigrate permanently.ã > ã > Well, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Russã > or Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing soã > because they don't like the system they are fleeing from and, even if that'sã > not the case, they will likely have a big problem trying to convert us toã > their Commie ways.. B)ã > ã > DW>I had heard that Chinese buy condos in BC and then rent them cheapã > >during the seasons they are not there because they cannot stay.ã > >So I think that is where I got the idea that none of them could stay.ã > ã > In a lot of cases it is wealthy people there looking for places to investã > money they've managed to hide from their government where there's a goodã > chance the places will go up in price. The limits on how long they canã > stay would likely be based on if they want to immigrate permanently andã > the hassle of the waiting period until they could get permission to moveã > here if they do. I expect the super rich in China have a better time ofã > things than the average people there (think of Russian Oligarchs) and,ã > although they may want to take advantage of things in the more 'free'ã > countries, they may not have any desire to move here permanently, plusã > they may have a major problem getting much more than a tiny percentageã > of all their $Billions out of their home country..ã > ããDue to military mobilisation, I bet there's travel restrictions from Russia. ãThey're alread telling those who took off for Europe and countries such asãGeorgia they will be jail or executed if they return to Russia. If they getãthrown in prison, the Wagner group will swoop them up and send them to theãUkraine for cannon fodder.ããRegarding buying land or condos, large construciton firms are building modernãapartments like crazy in China, and there doesn't appear to be a demand forãthe high end dwellings. In Tblisi, Georgia the Chinese built largeãapartments surrounded by strip malls and economic districts, and the building ãare vacant or mostly empty.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Often management is a victim of the "Peter Principal.ã > There are a couple of definitions of that but the one I refer to isã > that a person will rise in a company to just beyond the level of theirã > competence, suggesting Most managers are incompetent at their jobs.ããCO>Not trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talkingã >about the situation - is there something you would do differenty ifã >you were the one in charge?ããCO>In a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on theã >sidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, butã >never really stepping up to try and change things in a better way.ããHave you ever tried to tell your boss that he's doing something wrong?ãAnd the problem with incompetent bosses is they are paranoid about losingãtheir jobs so they will either ignore you, tell you to shut up, or try toãget rid of you in case higher-ups realize there is someone smarter thanãthem available to do the job.ããI say all that with a smile. I didn't intend for it to sound confrontatonalãwith you since I agree with your basic idea. A few times I've run intoãthis sort of thing and usually ended up deciding to forget it, just do theãjob and let the boss sink or swim on how he runs things.ããA Good boss is another story. One place I worked we got a sudden, panicãorder come in from a very important customer and my boss came to me inãthe plant and told me what the order was for and then paused and said,ã'I have no idea how anyone could possibly do this in the time we haveãto do it..'ããI told him to leave it to me and I'd find a way, and he did that ratherãthan trying to micro-manage how I did the work. I did manage it, basicallyãdoing about 8 or 10 hours of production in 5 hours.ããAfter that he always just left things to me where a worse boss would haveãjust said, 'Well obviously you can do a lot more work in a day that weãthought', and would try to get you to half kill yourself all the time.ããI later ended up running that department and, although other managers inãthe company hated it, I'd let my people goof around when things were quietãbecause then they would work at 120% when it was required. If you pushãpeople to work hard all the time, they just set a slower constant pace.ããIn the end I stopped working for other people by the time I was 32. If youãare your own boss you only have to answer to the customers and, in mostãof the jobs I did, my customers actually paid me more than I asked for soãthat I would be readily available for them when they needed me again.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ You get more with a smile AND a gun than a smile aloneã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Well, think of all the people who have moved to Canada and the USA from Rusã >> or Cuba. I'd imagine most of them that want to move premanently are doing sã >> because they don't like the system they are fleeing fromããDW>Cuba is another country I didn't think you were able to permanently leaveã >without fleeing. I know that used to be true. If they are able to leaveã >and are moving to Canada (and for the reasons we suspect), that is great!ããYes, I wasn't suggesting that their government would happily permitãemigration.. otherwise they'd have no poor people left to exploit.. B)ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ I can fly! I can fly! I can...oh #$%&!ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Quoting Rob Mccart to Cougar428 <=-ãã CO>Not trying to be contentious, but instead of watching and talkingã >about the situation - is there something you would do differenty ifã >you were the one in charge?ã ã CO>In a lot of places, what I would see is people sitting on theã >sidelines complaining about how the business was being managed, butã >never really stepping up to try and change things in a better way.ãã RM> Have you ever tried to tell your boss that he's doing something wrong?ã RM> And the problem with incompetent bosses is they are paranoid aboutã RM> losing their jobs so they will either ignore you, tell you to shut up,ã RM> or try to get rid of you in case higher-ups realize there is someoneã RM> smarter than them available to do the job.ããActually I have. The last 3 places I worked had a management openãdoor policy. The first job I ended up leaving when theãsuggestions I made had the effect you noted above. The secondãactually listened to me, but I moved on and found a better job.ããThe last place was enthusiastic about doing things better, so theyãwould evaluate and try suggestions. Some worked, some didn't. Iãmade some suggestions that improved my ability to help workers (ITãSupport), but I have retired after working for 50+ years.ãã RM> I say all that with a smile. I didn't intend for it to soundã RM> confrontatonal with you since I agree with your basic idea. ã ãYou don't sound confrontational, but thanks for letting me know.ãHey if we can't discuss things rationally, how are we ever going toãargue about things? B^)ãã RM> I told him to leave it to me and I'd find a way, and he did thatã RM> rather than trying to micro-manage how I did the work. I did manage it,ã RM> basically doing about 8 or 10 hours of production in 5 hours.ããSounds like you came through with the goods! That's great as longãas they don't expect you to do more with less as a rule of thumb.ãI've gotten bitten by that dog a number of times. The boss soundsãlike he trusted his people.ãã RM> In the end I stopped working for other people by the time I was 32. Ifã RM> you are your own boss you only have to answer to the customers and, inã RM> most of the jobs I did, my customers actually paid me more than I askedã RM> for so that I would be readily available for them when they needed meã RM> again. ããNow there's the ticket! I wish I was as resourceful as you seem toãbe. Thanks for the reply!ããCougarãã... úùþúùþúùþúùþ Eschew obfuscation! þùúþùúþùúþùúãã___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

I told him to leave it to me and I'd find a way, and he did thatã > rather than trying to micro-manage how I did the work. I did manage it,ã > basically doing about 8 or 10 hours of production in 5 hours.ããCO>Sounds like you came through with the goods! That's great as longã >as they don't expect you to do more with less as a rule of thumb.ããYes, I think he was so amazed he decided not to question how I did it.ãI definitely wouldn't want to do that too often, nor could a lot of peopleãif I'm being honest. The speed up involved things like ignoring theãcompany policy of not lifting more than 70 lbs when dumping materialsãinto a large mixer we used. That day I was working with up to 175 lbs.ããCO>I've gotten bitten by that dog a number of times. The boss soundsã >like he trusted his people.ããHe was good at letting you do what you were good at and not directlyãsupervising unless there was a problem. Six months after I started workingãthere he put me in charge of the quality testing lab, which required threeãyears of training to do, but I'd started doing the work when he was outãon sales calls and showing him the results when he got back and he realizedãthat I was quite able to do it, admitted I was even fussier on quality thanãhe was, so I got moved up a notch earlier than expected. Besides, heãpreferred the 3 martini sales calls to running the plant so he was happyãto pass as much on to me as I could manage.. B)ããRM> In the end I stopped working for other people by the time I was 32.ããCO>Now there's the ticket! I wish I was as resourceful as you seem toã >be.ããThat was sort of accidental. I took a winter off between that job andãthe offer of a similar job at a major competitor at 50% more money whereãthe job wasn't quite ready yet. They offered to take me on and 'findãsomething for me to do' until the coming job opened up but I decided Iãwas going to move anyways so, over a 2 month period, I sold two housesãthat I owned in the city and moved into my cottage until the fall andãthen took off for Florida for the winter. While I was there I got intoãinvesting the money from the house sales and found I was making moreãmoney than needed to pay the basic bills, so I decided to take someãmore time off.. and sort of never went back, other than part time jobsãI set up, mostly to earn enough extra to keep me in fairly recentãcomputers and other non-essential things, having the investment incomeãpaying the normal bills.ããBTW.. That was 36 years ago.. Now I also have a full pension added onãso things are a Lot easier.. B)ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ ... and then my wife started cross-posting herself...ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Cougar428 to ROB MCCART on Tue Feb 07 2023 11:20 pmãã > RM> most of the jobs I did, my customers actually paid me more than I askedã > RM> for so that I would be readily available for them when they needed meã > RM> again.ã >ã > Now there's the ticket! I wish I was as resourceful as you seem toã > be. Thanks for the reply!ã >ããyeah he's really lucky. it's hard to believe that customers paid him moreãthan what he asked for.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: How far I've come...ã By: Rob Mccart to COUGAR428 on Fri Feb 10 2023 12:52 amãã > RM> I told him to leave it to me and I'd find a way, and he did thatã > > rather than trying to micro-manage how I did the work. I did manage it,ã > > basically doing about 8 or 10 hours of production in 5 hours.ã >ã > CO>Sounds like you came through with the goods! That's great as longã > >as they don't expect you to do more with less as a rule of thumb.ã >ã > Yes, I think he was so amazed he decided not to question how I did it.ã > I definitely wouldn't want to do that too often, nor could a lot of peopleã > if I'm being honest. The speed up involved things like ignoring theã > company policy of not lifting more than 70 lbs when dumping materialsã > into a large mixer we used. That day I was working with up to 175 lbs.ã >ããwhat type of job was this? was this manufacturing where you were not showing up for the entire day and they accepted that?ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

(Re: Doing 8 to 10 hours of production work in 5 hours)ããCO>Sounds like you came through with the goods! That's great as longã >as they don't expect you to do more with less as a rule of thumb.ããRM>Yes, I think he was so amazed he decided not to question how I did it.ã >I definitely wouldn't want to do that too often, nor could a lot of peopleã >if I'm being honest. The speed up involved things like ignoring theã >company policy of not lifting more than 70 lbs when dumping materialsã >into a large mixer we used. That day I was working with up to 175 lbs.ãããMR>what type of job was this? was this manufacturing where you were notã >showing up for the entire day and they accepted that?ããNot sure what you are referring to about not showing up for the entire day.ãIt was a regular 40 hour a week job for us.ããIt was a plant making colouring for plastics, inks and special paints andãwe got a super rush order for over a ton of product which had to go outãbefore the end of that day (5 hours later). Normally a product run thatãbig would take well over a full day to make up and lab test for quality.ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Zen Master to Hotdog Vendor "Make me one with everything"ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

most of the jobs I did, my customers actually paid me more than I askedã > for so that I would be readily available for them when they needed meããCO> Now there's the ticket! I wish I was as resourceful as you seem to be.ããMR>yeah he's really lucky. it's hard to believe that customers paid him moreã >than what he asked for.ããIn general I was charging less than the going rate for things because I wasãworking out of my house with lower overhead. Some of the jobs I was doingãit was hard to find people to do them at all - things under the headingãof Property Management doing maintanance and such on cottages for peopleãwho were not there enough hours to look after the places themselves ifãthey wanted to have any time to get any enjoyment out of the place.ããI was also doing computer work and, as an example, one time I got a callãfrom the Town Clerk (think Mayor's Chief of Staff) who had a computerãthey couldn't spare out with a major computer place who tried for overã2 weeks to get it working right and I think were finally starting toãsuggest they just scrap the nearly new computer and buy a replacement.ãShe called me and asked if I'd look at it, explaining the situation,ãand I told her if they couldn't fix it I doubted that I could, but sheãsaid she'd pay me to try.. I got it working in about 3 hours.ãIt was a totally hidden hardware issue where everything worked rightãwhen tested on it's own, but didn't work right together, in only oneãout of four identical computers bought at the same time.ããLater when I stopped in one day she introduced me to a sales rep fromãWang computers as their Computer Guru.. B)ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ This echo gets stranger and stranger..Oh that's me..sorryã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldã pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã pF> anything or have screws left over!ããI know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago had theãsame problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box. Then itãhappened to my cloud server. Then...ããFeels good doesn't it.ããDaniel Traechinãã--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)ã * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.netã

calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ãã pF> Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldã pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã pF> anything or have screws left over!ãã ca> I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago hadã ca> the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box.ã ca> Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...ãã ca> Feels good doesn't it.ããIt feels good not tossing out old hardware; old hardware, with a littleãbit of maintenance here and there seems to last longer.ããããã... What context would look right?ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: poindexter FORTRAN to calcmandan on Sun Feb 26 2023 07:56 amãã > -=> calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ã >ã > pF> Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wouldã > pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã > pF> anything or have screws left over!ã >ã > ca> I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago hadã > ca> the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box.ã > ca> Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...ã >ã > ca> Feels good doesn't it.ã >ã > It feels good not tossing out old hardware; old hardware, with a littleã > bit of maintenance here and there seems to last longer.ã >ããmore energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shitãand slim it all down.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 06:46 pmãã > more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shitã > and slim it all down.ããYou'd be surprised sometimes.ããIf your computers work under medium to heavy load, there is a point past whichãit makes a lot of sense to ditch old hardware and replace it with new one.ãHowever, under lightweight load, it would take ages to save enough power toãjustify replacing an old computer worth 40 bucks for one worth 200.ããSomething similar happens with incandescent bulbs. If you don't use theãlighbulb that much, it does not make sense to replace it with a low-cunsuptionãlightsource. You won't recoup the cost of switching with the power savings.ããSpecially if you are $me and have solar electricity for 96% of the year XDãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: Arelor to MRO on Mon Feb 27 2023 09:19 amãã > Re: Re: How far I've come...ã > By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 06:46 pmã >ã > > more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shitã > > and slim it all down.ã >ã > You'd be surprised sometimes.ã >ã > If your computers work under medium to heavy load, there is a point pastã > which it makes a lot of sense to ditch old hardware and replace it with newã > one. However, under lightweight load, it would take ages to save enoughã > power to justify replacing an old computer worth 40 bucks for one worth 200.ã >ããno i'm not surprised. i used to have a house full of computers running and now i have one in my bedroom and one running downstairs as a media center.ããi have a killowat and i've seen the difference.ããanyways, it's just better to get rid of that old shit. some people need to stop being fucking hoarders.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 06:46 pmãã > Re: Re: How far I've come...ã > By: poindexter FORTRAN to calcmandan on Sun Feb 26 2023 07:56 amã > ã > > -=> calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ã > >ã > > pF> Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that woã > > pF> stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't breakã > > pF> anything or have screws left over!ã > >ã > > ca> I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago haã > > ca> the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall bã > > ca> Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...ã > >ã > > ca> Feels good doesn't it.ã > >ã > > It feels good not tossing out old hardware; old hardware, with a littleã > > bit of maintenance here and there seems to last longer.ã > >ã > ã > more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shitã > and slim it all down.ããI've invested in a few single board pc's before the Pi supply dried up, andãswapped out some old Pentium 4's for Arm cpu's. ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

On 2023-01-28, Arelor <PALANT!Arelor@vert.synchro.net> wrote:

Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pm

I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.

Pretty much this.

China used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk which was
good for barely anything. They aren't anymore.

So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to produce
merchandise up to European and American standards that at some point they realized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in china, and sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you will find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman is not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bought for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.

A contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chinesse construction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up with quality stuff."

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Japan was like that in the 60-70's. Cheap copies everywhere, and in the 80's they managed to surpass the West in a lot of places.

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Re: Re: How far I've come...ã By: anthk to All on Thu Jul 06 2023 08:59 amãã > On 2023-01-28, Arelor <PALANT!Arelor@vert.synchro.net> wrote:ã > >ã > > Re: How far I've come...ã > > By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pmã > >ã > > > I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.ã > >ã > > Pretty much this.ã > >ã > > China used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk whicã > > good for barely anything. They aren't anymore.ã > >ã > > So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to prã > > merchandise up to European and American standards that at some point theyã > > realized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce itã > > themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in chiã > > and sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you wiã > > find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foremanã > > not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bouã > > for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.ã > >ã > > A contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chinessã > > construction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up wã > > quality stuff."ã > >ã > >ã > > --ã > > gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenã > >ã > > ---ã > > þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã > Japan was like that in the 60-70's. Cheap copies everywhere, and in the 80'sã > they managed to surpass the West in a lot of places.ã > ãThe Japanese mindset towards product development ran off a different scheduleãthan Western mindset regarding time tables. A product may have been rejectedãin the US because it would 5 years to go from concept to finished project. A ãJapanese company would be thinking about longer term profitability and thinkã5 years not being that long to wait.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã