And then all the pro-privacy arguments were done on Youtube, owned by one ofã-> the most privacy unfriendly corporations on Earth.ããThats an understatement. I forget where exactly but I saw a video presentation by ãsomeone at google about the lengths they will go to track you even in a private browser ãsession.ã ã---ã

Re: RE: the nothing to hide aã By: TheMemeWarrior to ARELOR on Mon Jan 31 2022 04:22 pmãã > -> And then all the pro-privacy arguments were done on Youtube, owned by oneã > -> of the most privacy unfriendly corporations on Earth.ã >ã > Thats an understatement. I forget where exactly but I saw a videoã > presentation byã > someone at google about the lengths they will go to track you even in aã > private browserã > session.ãããyeah what happened to do no evilã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: RE: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to TheMemeWarrior on Sat Feb 05 2022 01:55 amãã > yeah what happened to do no evilããThey removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!ã

Re: RE: the nothing to hide aã By: Andeddu to MRO on Thu Feb 10 2022 07:06 pmãã > > yeah what happened to do no evilã > ã > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ãHasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil if it is convienient for them.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

yeah what happened to do no evilã Bo> > ã Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ã Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil ifã Bo> it is convienient for them.ããSo true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply for privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely) that Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smart speakers" etc for the convenience.ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Fri Feb 11 2022 12:35 pmãã > Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evilã >ã > Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ã > Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil ifã > Bo> it is convienient for them.ã >ã > So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply forã > privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely)ã > that Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smartã > speakers" etc for the convenience.ããour phones and the services we use on desktop computers are most certainly spying the fuck out of us.ãseveral apps and browsers and cookies are all part of it.ããit's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Fri Feb 11 2022 12:35 pmãã > Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evilã > ã > Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ã > Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil ifã > Bo> it is convienient for them.ã > ã > So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply forã > privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely) thaã > Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smart speakers" etcã > for the convenience.ããWhat perplexes me, is that there are people I know (admittedly few), who shareãthese concerns, greatly, but still buy these items. One I know will talk aboutãBig Tech censorship, how Google skews its searches and manipulates us, but youãcan "Hey Google" in his house and Google responds!ããI think in part people arguing that privacy isn't important is a cope. Theyãfeel powerless, unwilling to fight or make the harder consumer choices toãmaintain freedom, so they just reorganise their values to suit the situationãpushed upon then.ããPeople only really started using this "privacy doesn't matter" argument onceãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to Otto Reverse on Fri Feb 11 2022 04:56 pmãã > our phones and the services we use on desktop computers are most certainlyã > spying the fuck out of us.ã > several apps and browsers and cookies are all part of it.ã > ã > it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.ããThat is incredibly unethical, and these companies have the gall to crow aboutãtheir values and their goodness and how they are socially responsible.ããSilicon Valley truly is satans arsehole of the world, where awefulness emergesãto stain the world.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Hello MRO!ãã** On Friday 11.02.22 - 16:56, MRO wrote to Otto Reverse:ãã M> it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.ãããA lament on privacy from 1972..ãã https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4ããã--- OpenXP 5.0.51ã * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Ogg to MRO on Sat Feb 12 2022 09:12 amãã > Hello MRO!ã > ã > ** On Friday 11.02.22 - 16:56, MRO wrote to Otto Reverse:ã > ã > M> it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.ã > ã > ã > A lament on privacy from 1972..ã > ã > https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4ããTime to start pushing back, through example.ããThere is one rule that I think everyone should adopt. Electronic communicationãshould not be broadcast further than the intended audience.ããThe mistake was the "open internet", where everything that people did wasãautomatically public. We got to thinking that when we use the "Internet", itãmust be public. The Internet is really just a means of conveying data packetsãfrom one machine to another, and there is nothing which says this should beãvisible to all.ããWe've made ourselves not expect privacy, and therefore don't really deserve it.ã Back in the 90's, when you messaged on a BBS, is stayed there. Now when youãdo, it gets broadcast everywhere. This message will be public, even though youãhave to get an account to post it, and the server (BBS) has to sign up toãspread it.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to Otto Reverse on Fri Feb 11 2022 04:56 pmãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Fri Feb 11 2022 12:35 pmã > ã > > Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evilã > >ã > > Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ã > > Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evilã > > Bo> it is convienient for them.ã > >ã > > So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply ã > > privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely)ã > > that Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smartã > > speakers" etc for the convenience.ã > ã > our phones and the services we use on desktop computers are most certainly sã > several apps and browsers and cookies are all part of it.ã > ã > it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.ããThere are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, andãit's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app storeãcollect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source appsãand put up with less polished function or ease of use.ããWifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. TheãPine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physically shãut off wifi and cameras and mics and gpsãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Hello Boraxman!ãã** On Sunday 13.02.22 - 11:01, Boraxman wrote to Ogg:ãã >> A lament on privacy from 1972..ã >>ã >> https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4ãã B> Time to start pushing back, through example.ãã[...]ãã B> The mistake was the "open internet", where everything thatã B> people did was automatically public. We got to thinkingã B> that when we use the "Internet", it must be public. Theã B> Internet is really just a means of conveying data packetsã B> from one machine to another, and there is nothing whichã B> says this should be visible to all.ããwhen I first participated in email, I was amused that it was so ãeasy to route one's email through any particular server that ãwould allow it. I believe the technique was using the ! symbol ã(bang path notation). The "net" seemed to be open to the finger ãcommand too.ãã B> We've made ourselves not expect privacy, and thereforeã B> don't really deserve it. Back in the 90's, when youã B> messaged on a BBS, is stayed there. Now when you do, itã B> gets broadcast everywhere. This message will be public,ã B> even though you have to get an account to post it, and theã B> server (BBS) has to sign up to spread it.ããThe "narrative" from higher-up was not to expect privacy, but ãbefore then, I don't think most people expected to have the ãcontent of their email and activities on the internet ãmonitored.ããConvenience does seem to trump privacy though. :(ããCheck out my post here a few months ago:ããMID: 723:320/1.9@dovenet f4270dd1ãã Subject: Privacy is Power: take back your controlã Date: Su 05.09.21, 23:46ããThe book outlines very practical steps that people can adopt.ããã--ãã--- OpenXP 5.0.51ã * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

ANDEDDU wrote to <=-ãã > yeah what happened to do no evilãã AN> They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ããYup. I try my best to de-google my web browsers.ãã... An armed populace is the greatest insurance against tyrany.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ wcQWK 8.0 ÷ Inland Utopia * iutopia.duckdns.org:2323ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 amãã >ã > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, andã > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app storeã > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source appsã > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.ã >ã > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. Theã > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physicallyã > sh ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gpsããi might try one out, but i just bought a phone a few months ago because i broke my camera lense when having it in my back pocket. i was rolling around on the ground changing a tire. THAT phone wasnt even oldã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 amãã > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, andã > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app storeã > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source appsã > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.ã > ã > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. Theã > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physically ã > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gpsããI've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionality. Myãcurrent phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don't needãmuch. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will do myãfine. Play some music and I'm set.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Ogg to Boraxman on Sun Feb 13 2022 12:13 pmãã > when I first participated in email, I was amused that it was soã > easy to route one's email through any particular server thatã > would allow it. I believe the technique was using the ! symbolã > (bang path notation). The "net" seemed to be open to the fingerã > command too.ã > ã > The "narrative" from higher-up was not to expect privacyã > before then, I don't think most people expected to have theã > content of their email and activities on the internetã > monitored.ã > ã > Convenience does seem to trump privacy though. :(ã > ã > Check out my post here a few months ago:ã > ã > MID: 723:320/1.9@dovenet f4270dd1ã > ã > Subject: Privacy is Power: take back your controlã > Date: Su 05.09.21, 23:46ã > ã > The book outlines very practical steps that people can adopt.ããThey didn't expect it, and when people found out they shrugged their shoulders,ãbecause, well, what can you do? I think we need to change culturally, go backãto valuing discretion. People don't really understand what they are doingãonline, and don't consider it an analogue of what happens in your private life.ããTake for example meeting people in a pub, you have a conversation. You wouldãNOT expect the entire world to be able to view that conversation. Maybe othersãin the pub will overhear, but it's not searchable. Or you join a Linux UsersãGroup and you discuss having a BBQ with others at a meeting, again, that wouldãbe just for those in the group, not something that people in Russia or aroundãyour city would find out about. People wouldn't be able to know who went whereãand when.ããBut when it comes to the "internet", we kind of don't apply those standards. Aãgroup is public. Take fsxNet, we were discussing a meet up in Melbourne. Thisãshould be considered something only relevant to those in fsxNet, but you wouldã(when we plan to), be able to Google search the event, and anyone in the worldãwould know who went where and when. This doesn't sit right with me, it is veryãweird, but we still haven't gotten used to that.ããIn a way,, I'm advocating a more closed Internet. Web pages, public forumsãshould remain public, but communication should be, by default, by conventionãand politeness, be only for the audience participating.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ANDEDDU on Sun Feb 13 2022 08:38 pmãã AN>> They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ãã MM> Yup. I try my best to de-google my web browsers.ããWhat search engine do you use? And do you think it returns the same quality of results as Google?ããI've thought about moving away from Google, though I've gotten very used to Gmail, and I've been using Android phones for years..ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to MATTHEW MUNSON on Mon Feb 14 2022 10:21 amãã > What search engine do you use? And do you think it returns the same qualityã > results as Google?ã > ã > I've thought about moving away from Google, though I've gotten very used toã > Gmail, and I've been using Android phones for years..ã > ã > Nightfoxã > ããYou could use Startpage, which is a proxy/frontend to google.ããDuckduckgo is also popular. It is a proxy/frontend for Bing.ããThen there are tonnes of Metasearchers, such as a lot of freely availableãSearx instances., or Xaarky.ããThose generate quality results for searches. Beyond that, it is unchartedãterritory. Gigablast is worthy of mention because it is both a FOSS searchãengine you can install and deploy (it takes a lot of resources) and a websiteãyou can use for your searches (gigablast.com). Results are not that good,ãthough.ããBUt the best search engine is Veronica 2 for gopherspace. \o/ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Arelor to Nightfox on Mon Feb 14 2022 01:45 pmãã Ar> You could use Startpage, which is a proxy/frontend to google.ããThat's interesting, I hadn't heard about that. I'll have to check it out.ãã Ar> Duckduckgo is also popular. It is a proxy/frontend for Bing.ããI thought DuckDuckGo was its own search engine.. Didn't know it was a frontend for Bing.ãã Ar> Then there are tonnes of Metasearchers, such as a lot of freely availableã Ar> Searx instances., or Xaarky.ããI remember using one years ago called SavvySearch. I thought they had disappeared, but it looks like they still exist (maybe they went away for a while and came back?) It looks like they're owned by CBS now.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Boraxman to Ogg on Mon Feb 14 2022 20:30:20ãã > Take for example meeting people in a pub, you have a conversation. Youã > would NOT expect the entire world to be able to view that conversation.ã > Maybe others in the pub will overhear, but it's not searchable. Or you joinã > a Linux Users Group and you discuss having a BBQ with others at a meeting,ã > again, that would be just for those in the group, not something that peopleã > in Russia or around your city would find out about. People wouldn't be ableã > to know who went where and when.ã >ã > But when it comes to the "internet", we kind of don't apply those standards.ã > A group is public. Take fsxNet, we were discussing a meet up in Melbourne.ã > This should be considered something only relevant to those in fsxNet, butã > you would (when we plan to), be able to Google search the event, and anyoneã > in the world would know who went where and when. This doesn't sit rightã > with me, it is very weird, but we still haven't gotten used to that.ã >ã > In a way,, I'm advocating a more closed Internet. Web pages, public forumsã > should remain public, but communication should be, by default, by conventionã > and politeness, be only for the audience participating.ããI can certainly see your point. It's sort of like when my aunt (who is not very tech savvy) thinks she is sending a private message to me in Facebook, but she actually posts that message on her wall for everyone to see. She intended for it to be a private conversation, but now everyone on her friend's list can see it. Also, if her setting on FB are set a certain way, the entire planet can see it just through a simple Google search. If it were a personal matter, then it only gets worse from there.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ I got DIBZ on it! (dibz.synchro.net)ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Boraxman to Moondog on Mon Feb 14 2022 08:18 pmãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 amã > ã > > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, ã > > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app storã > > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source appã > > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.ã > >ã > > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. Theã > > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physicalã > > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gpsã > ã > I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionality. ã > current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don't needã > much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will do myã > fine. Play some music and I'm set.ã > ãBelieve it or not I was happy with my personal phone being a flip phone withãa pre-paid one year plan. If work required me to have a smart phone, theãcompany would issue me one and i would noit install any non-business apps onãit.ããAnyways, 3G is being dropped in my area and has been decreasing all around myãarea. I was forced to upgrade. Tracfone had a special going on, and I got aãSamsung A11 for free after the discount.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to MATTHEW MUNSON on Mon Feb 14 2022 10:21 amãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ANDEDDU on Sun Feb 13 2022 08:38 pmã >ã > AN>> They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ã >ã > MM> Yup. I try my best to de-google my web browsers.ã >ã > What search engine do you use? And do you think it returns the same qualityã > of results as Google?ã >ããbing is actually damn good. it's just that i use google by habit.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

On 2/14/2022 10:21 AM, NIGHTFOX wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:ããã-> ã-> MM> Yup. I try my best to de-google my web browsers.ã-> ã-> What search engine do you use? And do you think it returns the same quality of results ãas Google?ãBing at home and Duck Duck Go for work browsing.ã ã---ã þ wcQWK 8.0 ÷ Inland Utopia * iutopia.duckdns.org:2323ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to MATTHEW MUNSON on Mon Feb 14 2022 10:21 amãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ANDEDDU on Sun Feb 13 2022 08:38 pmã > ã > AN>> They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.ã > ã > MM> Yup. I try my best to de-google my web browsers.ã > ã > What search engine do you use? And do you think it returns the same qualityã > results as Google?ã > ã > I've thought about moving away from Google, though I've gotten very used toã > Gmail, and I've been using Android phones for years..ã > ã > Nightfoxã > ããDuck Duck Go is better in some instances, particularly if you are searchingãsomething where there might be an incentive to skew the results. Searching forãany topic where there might be non-narrative views will yield a wider varietyãof hits on Duck Duck Go than Google. Sometimes, the difference is stark. ãThere is a very obvious bias to Google now.ããGoogle is still better in some specific situations, when searching somethingãtechnical with very specific search terms, but Duck Duck Go is good enough toãbe my default. Google as a backup.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: SYS64738 to Boraxman on Mon Feb 14 2022 09:18 amãã > I can certainly see your point. It's sort of like when my aunt (who is notã > very tech savvy) thinks she is sending a private message to me in Facebook, ã > she actually posts that message on her wall for everyone to see. She intendeã > for it to be a private conversation, but now everyone on her friend's list cã > see it. Also, if her setting on FB are set a certain way, the entire planet ã > see it just through a simple Google search. If it were a personal matter, tã > it only gets worse from there.ããIndeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what was posted on aãBBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Google search.ããDefaults matter a lot in any software or service design, and I think goodãdesign is to default to a limited audience, and to be upfront and clear what thãe scope of communication is.ããSometimes, like a forum where you can read everything from the start page, itãis obvious, but in other areas, it is not. If you have to sign up, log in toãaccess, then it is implied that access is for those signed up.ããIn the early days, the WWW was a public place, you ONLY went online to seeãpublic things, and aside from e-mail, any interaction was meant to be publicã(ie, signing a guestbook). But with online services acting as communicationsãmedium between people, we have to break away from that, and have sensibleãservices where that communication is kept to its 'natural' audience.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon Feb 14 2022 11:39 amãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Boraxman to Moondog on Mon Feb 14 2022 08:18 pmã > ã > > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > > By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 amã > ã > > > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phonã > > > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app sã > > > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source ã > > > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.ã > ã > > > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. Thã > > > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physiã > > > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gpsã > ã > > I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionalitã > > current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don't nã > > much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will do mã > > fine. Play some music and I'm set.ã > ã > Believe it or not I was happy with my personal phone being a flip phone withã > a pre-paid one year plan. If work required me to have a smart phone, theã > company would issue me one and i would noit install any non-business apps onã > it.ã > ã > Anyways, 3G is being dropped in my area and has been decreasing all around mã > area. I was forced to upgrade. Tracfone had a special going on, and I got ã > Samsung A11 for free after the discount.ã > ããWork sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect me to runãapps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but have hadãto borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have to give aã Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives in theãsame city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me isãbeyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get peopleãcomplaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-mail, MSãteams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is probably aãtool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Boraxman to SYS64738 on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:12 pmãã Bo> Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what was postedã Bo> on a BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Google search.ããYep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forum messages posted on a BBS can be read and searched on the web.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Boraxman to Moondog on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:15 pmãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon Feb 14 2022 11:39 amã > ã > > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > > By: Boraxman to Moondog on Mon Feb 14 2022 08:18 pmã > >ã > > > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > > > By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 amã > >ã > > > > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android pã > > > > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the apã > > > > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open sourã > > > > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.ã > >ã > > > > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. ã > > > > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to phã > > > > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gpsã > >ã > > > I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionaã > > > current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don'ã > > > much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will dã > > > fine. Play some music and I'm set.ã > >ã > > Believe it or not I was happy with my personal phone being a flip phone wã > > a pre-paid one year plan. If work required me to have a smart phone, theã > > company would issue me one and i would noit install any non-business appsã > > it.ã > >ã > > Anyways, 3G is being dropped in my area and has been decreasing all arounã > > area. I was forced to upgrade. Tracfone had a special going on, and I gã > > Samsung A11 for free after the discount.ã > >ã > ã > Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect me to ã > apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but have haã > to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have to givã > Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives in theã > same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me isã > beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get peoplã > complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-mail, MSã > teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is probablã > tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.ã > ããI agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of management onãthe phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone, and even wipe itãremotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my company cell forãpersonal use, then lose everything due to a staff reduction.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:33 amãã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Boraxman to SYS64738 on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:12 pmã >ã > Bo> Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what wasã > Bo> posted on a BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Googleã > Bo> search.ã >ã > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forum messagesã > posted on a BBS can be read and searched on the web.ã >ã > Nightfoxããthat's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmãã MR> that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ããAnd miss out on all the insightful gems on FTN networks?ããã- Andreãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Andre to MRO on Tue Feb 15 2022 09:05 pmãã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmã >ã > MR> that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã >ã > And miss out on all the insightful gems on FTN networks?ã >ã >ã > - Andreããmy twitlisting and ip blocking is so fortified that i only see 3-4 people on dovenet.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Moondog to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 11:44 amãã > > Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect me ã > > apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but haveã > > to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have to ã > > Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives in tã > > same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me isã > > beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get peã > > complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-mail,ã > > teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is probã > > tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.ã > ã > ã > I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of management onã > the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone, and even wipe itã > remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my company cell forã > personal use, then lose everything due to a staff reduction.ããI don't care if it is a work phone, I'd want them to give me one. They want meãto install this on my own personal phone.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmãã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:33 amã > ã > > Re: the nothing to hide aã > > By: Boraxman to SYS64738 on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:12 pmã > ã > > Bo> Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what wasã > > Bo> posted on a BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Googã > > Bo> search.ã > ã > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forum messaã > > posted on a BBS can be read and searched on the web.ã > ã > > Nightfoxã > ã > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ããAgreed. Guest access when you had to dial in made sense, but now, it opensãyourself up for abuse.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Feb 16 2022 06:34 pmãã >ã > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã >ã > Agreed. Guest access when you had to dial in made sense, but now, it opensã > yourself up for abuse.ãããi would never allow guest access. sign up real quick and look around and dont call back. you'll be auto deleted in x amount of days.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

What perplexes me, is that there are people I know (admittedly few), whoã Bo> share these concerns, greatly, but still buy these items. One I knowã Bo> will talk about Big Tech censorship, how Google skews its searches andã Bo> manipulates us, but you can "Hey Google" in his house and Googleã Bo> responds!ã Bo> ã Bo> I think in part people arguing that privacy isn't important is a cope. ã Bo> They feel powerless, unwilling to fight or make the harder consumerã Bo> choices to maintain freedom, so they just reorganise their values toã Bo> suit the situation pushed upon then.ããNo doubt. That is probably where the "I have nothing to hide" refrain comes from.ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Boraxman to Moondog on Wed Feb 16 2022 06:32 pmãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Moondog to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 11:44 amã > ã > > > Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect ã > > > apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but hã > > > to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have ã > > > Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives iã > > > same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message meã > > > beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I getã > > > complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-maã > > > teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is pã > > > tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.ã > >ã > >ã > > I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of management ã > > the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone, and even wipe itã > > remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my company cell forã > > personal use, then lose everything due to a staff reduction.ã > ã > I don't care if it is a work phone, I'd want them to give me one. They wantã > to install this on my own personal phone.ã > ãMy personal affairs are mine, not the company's. Some companies have a "useãyour own device" option for those who have better equipment that they areãissued, but I don't care for company spying and the ability to wipe my phoneãwith no notice.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Wed Feb 16 2022 04:08 pmãã > Bo> What perplexes me, is that there are people I know (admittedly few), whã > Bo> share these concerns, greatly, but still buy these items. One I knowã > Bo> will talk about Big Tech censorship, how Google skews its searches andã > Bo> manipulates us, but you can "Hey Google" in his house and Googleã > Bo> responds!ã > ã > Bo> I think in part people arguing that privacy isn't important is a cope.ã > Bo> They feel powerless, unwilling to fight or make the harder consumerã > Bo> choices to maintain freedom, so they just reorganise their values toã > Bo> suit the situation pushed upon then.ã > ã > No doubt. That is probably where the "I have nothing to hide" refrain comesã > from.ããWhenever people tell me they aren't fussed with monitoring and spying, I askãthem for their phone, and if I can browse it. If they are saying they haveãnothing to hide, then lets prove it.ããããIf they are OK with some anonymous person looking through their data, thenãsurely someone they know and trust would be OK too.ããNever had anyone comfortable with it yet. Good way to demonstrate they areãreally full of it.ããReminds me of this story, where there was a debate, and someone who was arguingãagainst fiat money or something was saying that money was actually worthless. ãHe put a $50 note on the table arguing it was worth nothing. His debateãopponent then went to take it from here, whereup he quickly snatched it back!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Moondog wrote to Boraxman <=-ãã Mo> I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer ofã Mo> management on the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone,ã Mo> and even wipe it remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using myã Mo> company cell for personal use, then lose everything due to a staffã Mo> reduction.ããI had whitelisted my old phone for ActiveSync, and when I upgraded, needed ãto install Microsoft Entune. It's great if you have work apps that aren't on ãthe play store, but for a company that doesn't reimburse for BYOD, it's a ãlittle heavy-handed; if you're going to install your infrastructure on my ãphone to give me the "privelige" of keeping abreast of workflow and ãpotentially monitor my activity, you should at least pitch in for my cell ãphone plan.ãããããã... SURELY NOT EVERYONE WAS KUNG FU FIGHTINGã--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmãã > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forumã >ã > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ããWhere is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts the BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that have their messages web accessible?ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net - www.xadara.comã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Wed Feb 16 2022 04:08 pmããGot nothing to hide? Then get naked!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net - www.xadara.comã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Phigan to MRO on Sat Feb 26 2022 09:25 pmãã Ph> Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts the BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes doã Ph> you know that have their messages web accessible? ããSynchronet itself does this.ããMewcenary.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Extricate BBS - bbs.extricate.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Phigan to MRO on Sat Feb 26 2022 09:25 pmãã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmã >ã > > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forumã >ã > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã >ã > Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts theã > BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that have theirã > messages web accessible?ããMost Synchronet BBSes (e.g. web.synchro.net).ã-- ã digital man (rob)ããSling Blade quote #20:ãDoyle: Hey is this the kind of retard that drools and rubs shit in his hair?ãNorco, CA WX: 50.4øF, 24.0% humidity, 0 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

--- DIGITAL MAN wrote ---ã> Re: the nothing to hide aã> By: Phigan to MRO on Sat Feb 26 2022 09:25 pmã> ã> >ã> > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã> >ã> > Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts ã> theã> > BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that have ã> theirã> > messages web accessible?ã> ã> Most Synchronet BBSes (e.g. web.synchro.net).ã> -- ãI used to have a web interface. I should bring it back. I had it because I ãworked for EDS at the time and they had a proper firewall.ããI used to voice validate users. In 1985.ããã---ã* TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.infoã

Mewcenary wrote to Phigan <=-ãã Ph> Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts theã Me> BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes doã Ph> you know that have their messages web accessible?ãã Me> Synchronet itself does this.ããWell, assuming the sysop wants it to.ããMy BBS is not web-accessible.ãããã... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Phigan to MRO on Sat Feb 26 2022 09:25 pmãã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmã > ã > > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forumã > ã > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã > ã > Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts the Bã > messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that have theirã > messages web accessible?ã > ããEchicken's one comes to mind, the first of all.ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Phigan to MRO on Sat Feb 26 2022 09:25 pmãã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmã >ã > > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forumã >ã > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã >ã > Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts theã > BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that have theirã > messages web accessible?ããsynchronet's web interface.ãa2k bbs has a nice web interface for msgs too.ãthere's a few fidonet on the web websites.ããi didnt see a majorbbs that puts bbs msgs in a web forumããi used to link my msg bases to vbulletin via nntp plugin and nightfox did also.ãi got the idea from hax0r from hax0r's palace.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Got nothing to hide? Then get naked!ããBe glad this is a text-only medium! lolã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Arelor to Phigan on Sun Feb 27 2022 11:03 amã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Phigan to MRO on Sat Feb 26 2022 09:25 pmã > ã > > Re: the nothing to hide aã > > By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmã > ã > > > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forumã > ã > > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã > ã > > Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that puts thã > > messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that have theirã > > messages web accessible?ã > ã > ã > Echicken's one comes to mind, the first of all.ã > ã > --ã > gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenã > ãAnd a nice layout that echicken's web forum interface has also. The best thatãI know of.ããSincerely,ãJon JustvigãStepping Stone BBSãtelnet://steppingstonebbs.comãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Stepping Stone BBS - steppingstonebbs.comã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Arelor to Phigan on Sun Feb 27 2022 11:03 amãã >> Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that putsã >> the B messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know thatã >> have their messages web accessible?ãã Ar> Echicken's one comes to mind, the first of all.ããMany Synchronet BBSes have their messages available via the web. Many Synchronet sysops choose to enable this by forwarding the web port to their BBS machine. But a sysop could easily disable that functionality by not forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there's also a setting in Synchronet to have it not run its web server.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: cr1mson to Arelor on Sun Feb 27 2022 01:39 pmãã cr> And a nice layout that echicken's web forum interface has also. The bestã cr> that I know of.ããI used to run vBulletin on Apache with the plug-in that linked it with my BBS via Synchronet's news server, but I decided to stop doing that. I think echicken's webv4 started to approach the kind of functionality included in things like vBulletin, so I didn't really think it was worth it to continue paying for vBulletin's ongoing fees.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sun Feb 27 2022 03:57 pmãã Ni> not forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there's also a setting inã Ni> Synchronet to have it not run its web server. ããStartup sbbs with "w-" to disable the webserver. ããFrom the Windows Sync control panel there's a "Web" menu. Uncheck auto start.ããã- Andreãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Otto Reverse to Phigan on Sun Feb 27 2022 10:40 amãã > Ph> Got nothing to hide? Then get naked!ã >ã > Be glad this is a text-only medium! lolããgood thing you didn't hear of paul casey.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: cr1mson to Arelor on Sun Feb 27 2022 01:39 pmãã > > > Re: the nothing to hide aã > > > By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pmã >ã > > > > > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the publicã > > > > > forumã >ã > > > > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.ã >ã > > > Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that putsã > > > th messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know that haveã > > > their messages web accessible?ã >ã >ã > > Echicken's one comes to mind, the first of all.ã >ã > > --ã > > gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenã >ã > And a nice layout that echicken's web forum interface has also. The bestã > that I know of.ã >ããyou really think that's better than steve wynn's at2k design?ããhttps://i.imgur.com/G6X4CQK.pngããhttps://i.imgur.com/PkPSmM7.pngããhttps://i.imgur.com/hapUUWb.pngãããi know you've seen it.ããi've always liked it. also it's nice and fast. i think it's the perfect design for a web interface to a bbs.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sun Feb 27 2022 03:57 pmãã > Many Synchronet BBSes have their messages available via the web. Manyã > Synchronet sysops choose to enable this by forwarding the web port to theirã > BBS machine. But a sysop could easily disable that functionality by notã > forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there's also a setting in Synchronetã > to have it not run its web server.ããno. you just turn off guest access to the msg base so the msg bases arent crawled by a search bot.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to cr1mson on Sun Feb 27 2022 04:00 pmãã > I used to run vBulletin on Apache with the plug-in that linked it with myã > BBS via Synchronet's news server, but I decided to stop doing that. I thinkã > echicken's webv4 started to approach the kind of functionality included inã > things like vBulletin, so I didn't really think it was worth it to continueã > paying for vBulletin's ongoing fees.ããoh you paid? that's one thing i didnt do.ããi liked it. it was just cludged together.ãalso, nobody used it. it looked great and it was cool but nobody used it.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

On 02-26-22 21:25, Phigan wrote to MRO <=-ãã Ph> Where is an example of this? So far, I only know of MajorBBS that putsã Ph> the BBS messages in a web forum as well. What BBSes do you know thatã Ph> have their messages web accessible?ããSynchronet is another.ããã... But that trick never works! -Rockyã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

On 02-27-22 15:57, Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-ãã Ni> Many Synchronet BBSes have their messages available via the web. Manyã Ni> Synchronet sysops choose to enable this by forwarding the web port toã Ni> their BBS machine. But a sysop could easily disable that functionalityã Ni> by not forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there's also a setting inã Ni> Synchronet to have it not run its web server.ããI love (not) how people assume we're all running behind a NAT. What portãforwarding? ;)ããã... Let us drink deep for death is inevitable.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Feb 28 2022 03:42 pmãã Ni>> Many Synchronet BBSes have their messages available via the web. ã Ni>> Many Synchronet sysops choose to enable this by forwarding the webã Ni>> port to their BBS machine. But a sysop could easily disable thatã Ni>> functionality by not forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there'sã Ni>> also a setting in Synchronet to have it not run its web server.ãã Vk> I love (not) how people assume we're all running behind a NAT. What portã Vk> forwarding? ;)ããYou have all your ports exposed publicly to the internet? Or perhaps there's an alternative to NAT that I'm not aware of..?ãI thought pretty much everyone with internet at home would be using a router, and I thought NAT a standard feature of a router for some level of protection.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun Feb 27 2022 10:25 pmãã > You have all your ports exposed publicly to the internet?ããOn my BBS computers, yes.ã-- ã digital man (rob)ããSling Blade quote #17:ãCharles Bushman: A shovel just makes too goddamned much racket.ãNorco, CA WX: 62.3øF, 12.0% humidity, 2 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun Feb 27 2022 10:25 pmãã Ni> You have all your ports exposed publicly to the internet? Or perhaps there's an alternative to NAT that I'm not aware of..?ã Ni> I thought pretty much everyone with internet at home would be using a router, and I thought NAT a standard feature of a routerã Ni> for some level of protection. ããNumerous BBS systems are run directly with public IPs now via cloud solutions.ããAlso, although rare, some broadband providers allow a _range_ of public IPs to be allocated to consumers, so it's possible to dedicate one of these to a BBS host.ããSynchronet doesn't come security hardened out of the box (I'd argue it should, maybe I should submit a pull request on this :-) ), but there is an article on Hardening on the Wiki.ããMewcenary.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Extricate BBS - bbs.extricate.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun Feb 27 2022 10:25 pmãã > Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Feb 28 2022 03:42 pmã > ã > Ni>> Many Synchronet BBSes have their messages available via the web.ã > Ni>> Many Synchronet sysops choose to enable this by forwarding the webã > Ni>> port to their BBS machine. But a sysop could easily disable thatã > Ni>> functionality by not forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there'sã > Ni>> also a setting in Synchronet to have it not run its web server.ã > ã > Vk> I love (not) how people assume we're all running behind a NAT. What porã > Vk> forwarding? ;)ã > ã > You have all your ports exposed publicly to the internet? Or perhaps there'ã > an alternative to NAT that I'm not aware of..?ã > I thought pretty much everyone with internet at home would be using a routerã > and I thought NAT a standard feature of a router for some level of protectioã > ã > Nightfoxã > ããMany rural areas have homes with a single computer in them. Village grandpasãjust skip the router and connect their computer directly to the ethernet linkãtheir ISPs give them. A router does not make much sense if you are only using aãsingle computer.ããBesides, with IPV6 a computer may have an Internet routable address and beãcompletely exposed while being behind a router anyway.ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Nightfox to cr1mson on Sun Feb 27 2022 04:00 pmã > Re: the nothing to hide aã > By: cr1mson to Arelor on Sun Feb 27 2022 01:39 pmã > ã > cr> And a nice layout that echicken's web forum interface has also. The besã > cr> that I know of.ã > ã > I used to run vBulletin on Apache with the plug-in that linked it with my BBã > via Synchronet's news server, but I decided to stop doing that. I thinkã > echicken's webv4 started to approach the kind of functionality included inã > things like vBulletin, so I didn't really think it was worth it to continueã > paying for vBulletin's ongoing fees.ã > ã > Nightfoxã > ãI actually remember that from way-back. I too used your script with Synchonetãand vBulletin. It was nice to import SBBS users into the forum and transferãmessages between the two. That was quite nice back then. But ya, things haveãchanged since then and echicken's approach fulfills certainly my needs as wellãas others. I still use the legacy telnet to write messages but it's nice toãhave a web-base forum with messages too that don't use telnet and particularlyãlike the web side of things.ããSincerely,ãJon JustvigãStepping Stone BBSãtelnet://steppingstonebbs.comãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Stepping Stone BBS - steppingstonebbs.comã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Feb 28 2022 03:42 pmãã > -=> On 02-27-22 15:57, Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-ã >ã > Ni> Many Synchronet BBSes have their messages available via the web. Manyã > Ni> Synchronet sysops choose to enable this by forwarding the web port toã > Ni> their BBS machine. But a sysop could easily disable that functionalityã > Ni> by not forwarding the web port, and I'm sure there's also a setting inã > Ni> Synchronet to have it not run its web server.ã >ã > I love (not) how people assume we're all running behind a NAT. What portã > forwarding? ;)ã >ããwell, we're assuming people here are somewhat powerusers, and they have multiple computers and devices. also it helps to have some type of hardware firewall up.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: cr1mson to Nightfox on Mon Feb 28 2022 03:52 amãã > I actually remember that from way-back. I too used your script withã > Synchonet and vBulletin. It was nice to import SBBS users into the forumã > and transfer messages between the two. That was quite nice back then. Butã > ya, things have changed since then and echicken's approach fulfillsã > certainly my needs as well as others. I still use the legacy telnet toã > write messages but it's nice to have a web-base forum with messages too thatã > don't use telnet and particularly like the web side of things.ããwell another thing that was nice is the search feature of vbulletin.ãvbulletin is good software. the nntp plugin not so good.it worked most of the time. it's just old and meant for an older version of vbulletin.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

On 02-27-22 22:25, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã Ni> You have all your ports exposed publicly to the internet? Or perhapsã Ni> there's an alternative to NAT that I'm not aware of..? I thought prettyã Ni> much everyone with internet at home would be using a router, and Iã Ni> thought NAT a standard feature of a router for some level ofã Ni> protection.ããNAT != security. You've fallen for the big myth that NAT is somehow moreãsecure. All it does is screw up some protocols (FTP anyone?), and putsãarbitrary limits on incoming traffic (2 BBSs on the same port, NO WAY!).ããNAT is an ugly hack to help with IPv4 shortages.ããFirst defence is only have the services (daemons) you need running andãlistening only on the IP/port combinations you want. If further limiting ofãaccess is needed, then there's this wonderful thing called a firewall. ;)ãiptables on Linux does an excellent job, and even Windows Firewall doesn't do aãbad job, if properly configured.ããã... You were sent here as a warning to others, weren't you?ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

On 02-28-22 05:03, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã MR> well, we're assuming people here are somewhat powerusers, and they haveã MR> multiple computers and devices. also it helps to have some type ofã MR> hardware firewall up. ---ããThat still doesn't necessarily mean NAT. Firewalls have been around _much_ãlonger than NAT.ããã... People are always available for work in the past tense.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri Mar 04 2022 06:57 pmãã > -=> On 02-28-22 05:03, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-ã >ã > MR> well, we're assuming people here are somewhat powerusers, and they haveã > MR> multiple computers and devices. also it helps to have some type ofã > MR> hardware firewall up. ---ã >ã > That still doesn't necessarily mean NAT. Firewalls have been around _much_ã > longer than NAT.ã >ã >ã > ... People are always available for work in the past tense.ããso what are we arguing about? you neek saying NAT over and over again. that's all i'm geting.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri Mar 04 2022 06:57 pmãã MR>> well, we're assuming people here are somewhat powerusers, and theyã MR>> have multiple computers and devices. also it helps to have someã MR>> type of hardware firewall up. ---ãã Vk> That still doesn't necessarily mean NAT. Firewalls have been around _much_ã Vk> longer than NAT.ããProbably does. Most home users only have a single IP.ããFirewalls only preceeded NAT by few years, and stateful firewalls came a couple years after NAT.ããã- Andreãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Mar 04 2022 06:55 pmãã Ni>> thought pretty much everyone with internet at home would be using aã Ni>> router, and I thought NAT a standard feature of a router for someã Ni>> level of protection.ãã Vk> NAT != security. You've fallen for the big myth that NAT is somehow moreã Vk> secure. All it does is screw up some protocols (FTP anyone?), and putsã Vk> arbitrary limits on incoming traffic (2 BBSs on the same port, NO WAY!).ããYou're both conflating NAT and PAT, and neither of them screw up protocols. Stateful firewalls screw up protocols if they're misconfigured and not tracking the full conversation.ãã Vk> ;) iptables on Linux does an excellent jobããThe only thing IPTABLES is good at is that it's stable and free. It's archaic and damn near useless for anything other than port blocking and logging traffic.ããã- Andreãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.orgã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Andre to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 04 2022 05:41 amãã > The only thing IPTABLES is good at is that it's stable and free. It's archaiã > and damn near useless for anything other than port blocking and loggingã > traffic.ã > ããI am more of a pf fan than an iptables fan, but Iptables is actually fine forãredirecting, man-in-the-middleing and doing other tricks other than blockingãand logging.ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

I am more of a pf fan than an iptables fan, but Iptables is actually fine for redirecting, man-in-the-middleing and doing other tricks other than blocking and logging.

Yes, but that’s not IPTABLES doing any of that. All it’s doing is managing packet routing and state (I know I’m oversimplifying it, but let’s be realistic about what people actually do with it most of the time).


- Andre

---
ï¿­ Synchronet ï¿­ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Andre to Arelor on Fri Mar 04 2022 08:22 amãã > > I am more of a pf fan than an iptables fan, but Iptables is actually fine ã > > redirecting, man-in-the-middleing and doing other tricks other than blockiã > > and logging.ã > ã > Yes, but that's not IPTABLES doing any of that. All it's doing is managingã > packet routing and state (I know I'm oversimplifying it, but let's beã > realistic about what people actually do with it most of the time).ã > ã > ã > - Andreã > ããIf you want to split hairs, it is not Iptables doing that. It is Netfilter.ãIptables is only loading rules into the kernel :-)ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

On 03-04-22 05:11, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã MR> so what are we arguing about? you neek saying NAT over and over again.ããMaybe try reading the message. :)ããã... An Elephant; A Mouse built to government specifications.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

On 03-04-22 05:36, Andre wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã Vk> That still doesn't necessarily mean NAT. Firewalls have been around _much_ã Vk> longer than NAT.ãã An> Probably does. Most home users only have a single IP.ããAnother assumption - who says the BBS was going to be hosted at home? Sure,ãmany are (including mine), but I could have used (and did consider using) aãPS.ãã An> Firewalls only preceeded NAT by few years, and stateful firewalls cameã An> a couple years after NAT.ããSounds about right.ããã... Dachshund kennel ad: Get a long little doggie.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

On 03-04-22 05:41, Andre wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã An> You're both conflating NAT and PAT, and neither of them screw upã An> protocols. Stateful firewalls screw up protocols if they'reã An> misconfigured and not tracking the full conversation.ããHmm, what about active FTP? DCC (on IRC)? Just to name a couple that haveãbeen affected.ããã... Observe the procedures of a general alert.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Vk3jed to MRO on Sun Mar 06 2022 08:43 pmãã > -=> On 03-04-22 05:11, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-ã >ã > MR> so what are we arguing about? you neek saying NAT over and over again.ã >ã > Maybe try reading the message. :)ã >ããyou: nat nat nat. it's not nat. nat nat natã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-ãã -=> On 02-27-22 22:25, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã Vk> NAT != security. You've fallen for the big myth that NAT is somehowã Vk> more secure. All it does is screw up some protocols (FTP anyone?), andã Vk> puts arbitrary limits on incoming traffic (2 BBSs on the same port, NOã Vk> WAY!).ããIt's in no way a secure model, but I liked my first setup, where I had a ãsingle IP address and a Linux box with 2 network cards. I ran all of my ãservices on the box directly with iptables running, and NATed the rest of my ãlan over the second card.ããEasy, less hassle with NAT, and everything worked.ããAdmittedly, this was in kindler, gentler times.ãããã... No ceremonies are necessary.ã--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã By: MRO to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 06 2022 08:18 amãã MR> Re: Re: the nothing to hide aã MR> By: Vk3jed to MRO on Sun Mar 06 2022 08:43 pmãã >> -=> On 03-04-22 05:11, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã > MR>> so what are we arguing about? you neek saying NAT over and overã > MR>> again. ãã >> Maybe try reading the message. :)ããã MR> you: nat nat nat. it's not nat. nat nat natããAll these nats. I think someone needs to start spraying for bugs.ã---ããSincerely,ãJon JustvigãStepping Stone BBSãtelnet://steppingstonebbs.comãhttp://steppingstonebbs.comã---ã þ Synchronet þ Stepping Stone BBS - steppingstonebbs.comã

On 03-04-22 06:56, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-ãã pF> It's in no way a secure model, but I liked my first setup, where I hadã pF> a single IP address and a Linux box with 2 network cards. I ran all ofã pF> my services on the box directly with iptables running, and NATed theã pF> rest of my lan over the second card.ãã pF> Easy, less hassle with NAT, and everything worked.ããYeah not a bad option, if you need only one IP. And there's other ways toãharden Internet facing systems, if needed.ããã... Command not found. Damn, it was here a minute ago... hold on...ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

Quoting Boraxman to Ogg <=-ãI totally agree. We don't expect privacy so it isn't an issue for manyãpeople.ããI'm a quad, and I have Amazon Services throughout the house. For myself,ãthe abdication of my privacy isn't a convenience, it is how I can be asãindependent as I can.ããSecurity v. Freedom is a lofty argument. The more something is secure, theãless freedom we have. Many people forget this and want 100% of both. Well,ãthere is nothing that is ever 100% secure nor is there anything that isãever 100% free -- I think of how much a "free" dog costs in medical billsãafter the fact.ããThe best someone can do is strive to strike a balance between the two.ããHowever, for most people, they don't understand the concept of IoT andãnever update their TVs, refrigerators, toasters, you name it. Whatever theyãhave in their LANs that pull an IP is vulnerable and a security risk.ããPeople also don't value their information. They don't understand that theãmyriad of trash they are getting in their email or twit feed, etc. isãlargely their own making.ããBefore we can increase electronic security, we need the public to beãeducated on what electronic security touches. I think the average personãwould be confounded and overwhelmed with some of the specifics.ããJazzy Jããã * AmyBW v2.16 *ã... I use Windows... on my car, on my house, but not on my computer!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ BayouBBS.Net, Ports 23, 6401 and 6402ã

Jazzy J wrote to Boraxman <=-ãã JJ> @MSGID: <622DDCFC.2296.dove-internet@jayscafe.net>ã JJ> @REPLY: <62084A5E.5205.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>ã -=> Quoting Boraxman to Ogg <=-ã JJ> I totally agree. We don't expect privacy so it isn't an issue for manyã JJ> people.ãã JJ> I'm a quad, and I have Amazon Services throughout the house. Forã JJ> myself, the abdication of my privacy isn't a convenience, it is how Iã JJ> can be as independent as I can.ãã JJ> Security v. Freedom is a lofty argument. The more something is secure,ã JJ> the less freedom we have. Many people forget this and want 100% ofã JJ> both. Well, there is nothing that is ever 100% secure nor is thereã JJ> anything that is ever 100% free -- I think of how much a "free" dogã JJ> costs in medical bills after the fact.ãã JJ> The best someone can do is strive to strike a balance between the two.ãã JJ> However, for most people, they don't understand the concept of IoT andã JJ> never update their TVs, refrigerators, toasters, you name it. Whateverã JJ> they have in their LANs that pull an IP is vulnerable and a securityã JJ> risk.ãã JJ> People also don't value their information. They don't understand thatã JJ> the myriad of trash they are getting in their email or twit feed, etc.ã JJ> is largely their own making.ãã JJ> Before we can increase electronic security, we need the public to beã JJ> educated on what electronic security touches. I think the averageã JJ> person would be confounded and overwhelmed with some of the specifics.ãã JJ> Jazzy JããWho is going to educate the public though? There is no real incentive for theãcompanies selling these products to do it, in fact, they would thrive ofãignorance and lack of knowledge, as people would default to just purchasingãsomething to fix a problem.ããI think people don't care because they don't want to have to fight, or beãinconvenienced. So instead they try to rationalise away giving away theirãprivacy and control.ããI'm not optimistic about where technology and our relationship is going, not atãall.ãã... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: the nothing to hide aã By: Digital Man to Phigan on Sun Feb 27 2022 01:33 amãã > Most Synchronet BBSes (e.g. web.synchro.net).ããAha, up there under "Forum". Not bad! I had not seen anyone set that up yet, only the telnet client in a web page thing. Going to check out themeability or whatever. Thanks :)ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net - www.xadara.comã