I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use them. Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer for who opt to use those platforms as their public voice. But now that Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of the nerdiest would, but still even if a small fraction did would be neat to see.

Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)

---
ï¿­ Synchronet ï¿­ Camping on the Internet at Camp Baudot BBS - campbaudot.com

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?ã By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pmãã > I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely useã > them. Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteerã > for who opt to use those platforms as their public voice. But now thatã > Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social mediaã > platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSesã > will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of theã > nerdiest would, but still even if a small fraction did would be neat to see.ã >ã > Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages?ã > Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)ãããmake sure you remember to quote msgsã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?ã By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pmãã > Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages?ã > Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)ããIt's been several years now. Glad you like it.ã-- ã digital man (rob)ããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #33:ãFSP = FidoNet Standards ProposalãNorco, CA WX: 61.6øF, 68.0% humidity, 5 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?ã By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pmãã SA> Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream socialã SA> media platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware ofã SA> BBSes will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest ofããWhat are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others were used much anymore.ãã SA> Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages?ã SA> Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)ããFrom what I remember, that was added in late 2016 for Synchronet 3.17. And in addition to upvoting and downvoting, Synchronet also supports polls that people can vote on.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?ã By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pmãã > I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use them.ã > Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer for who opt ã > use those platforms as their public voice. But now that Tesla dude owns Twitter ã > reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are getting a boost.ã > Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here to find some outlet.ã > Probably only the nerdiest of the nerdiest would, but still even if a small fractã > did would be neat to see.ã > ã > Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very niã > reminds me of Reddit ;-)ã > ããThe people worried about Musk buying Twitter are mostly ideological fanantics havingãa tizzy fit. I don't think he'll fix that much anyway.ããI think a lot of people aren't aware, or aren't interested, mostly the former. Iãthink it is a good alternative to crappy ad-driven social media, with many benefitsãthe Big Tech platforms cannot offer.ããWelcome to BBS'ing! I did use BBS's in the mid to late 90s, but dropped out atãabout 2000 completely after they dissappeared and I moved to using the "Internet"ãfor everything. Several years ago I found they still existed, popped in and outãjust to see what they were like but stayed after a while because logging in to a BBSãgets you more than just nostalgia.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-ãã Ni> What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? Iã Ni> thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Iã Ni> didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and othersã Ni> were used much anymore.ããRemember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own"ãsaying?ããWell, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of likeãTwitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, butãthose are the ones I use.ããã... Money talks - mine says "Goodbye"ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Apr 29 2022 08:07 amãã > -=> Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-ã >ã > Ni> What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? Iã > Ni> thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Iã > Ni> didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and othersã > Ni> were used much anymore.ã >ã > Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start yourã > own" saying?ã >ã > Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of likeã > Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more,ã > but those are the ones I use.ã >ããthat's happened with everything. that's why there's so many programming languages. only the strong survive.ããtwitter and fb stuck around through all this because they were strong and there's more people on them.ããspeaking of gab, i can't get them to send me my pw reset. my account is there but never works.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Apr 29 2022 08:07 amãã > Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start yourã > own" saying?ã >ã > Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of likeã > Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more,ã > but those are the ones I use.ããAbsolutely. Don't forget that there's a huge decentralized free, open-source software (FOSS) of social media out there (sometimes called the "Fediverse"). Federated Social Media has sprung up everywhere, allowing the use of the ActivityPub protocol to allow everyone to start up their own Twitter (Mastodon), YouTube (PeerTube), Instagram (Pixelfed), and the like, and they can all talk to one another and federate easily and selectively.ããI feel that, even though the Federation / Fediverse has been a nerdy experiment mostly among fringe and nerds, the dramatic increase in it (namely, Mastodon) thanks to Tusk's acquisition of Twitter is going to launch a new renaissance. Definitely provides food for thought along-side the Alt Soc Med.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to Dr. What on Fri Apr 29 2022 07:38 amãã > I feel that, even though the Federation / Fediverse has been a nerdy experimã > mostly among fringe and nerds, the dramatic increase in it (namely, Mastodonã > thanks to Tusk's acquisition of Twitter is going to launch a new renaissanceã > Definitely provides food for thought along-side the Alt Soc Med.ããWhen the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes from theãFediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter, there was anãavalanche and their services got overloaded.ããA month later all the newcomers had left for good.ããPeople is not constant at all.ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Apr 29 2022 08:07 amãã > -=> Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-ã > ã > Ni> What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I thoughã > Ni> most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't thinkã > Ni> others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and othersã > Ni> were used much anymore.ã > ã > Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own"ã > saying?ã > ã > Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like Twittã > Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, but those are theã > ones I use.ã > ã > ã > ... Money talks - mine says "Goodbye"ãã"Our platform", recognition that the digital public square was never really for theãpublic.ããThe best thing Elon could do now, is get every backup tape and hard drive whichãcontains Twitter code and data passed under a degausser and then sold as blanks onãe-bay.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Arelor to Kaelon on Fri Apr 29 2022 05:59 pmãã > When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes fromã > the Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter, thereã > was an avalanche and their services got overloaded.ã >ã > A month later all the newcomers had left for good.ã >ã > People is not constant at all.ããTienes razon. But even so, the principle of the Fediverse is that you can join any instance - big or small - and still be able to interact with any and all "instances" that are "federated" with it. So one of the problems is that, on Mastodon, everyone was joining mastodon.social and mastodon.online. But there's no reason to do so, really.ããThat said, I do think that the temporary surge in the Fediverse will be short-lived. Social Networks depend upon the social networking effect, and you need a critical mass of users and interactivity to deal with that.ã-=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Arelor to Kaelon on Fri Apr 29 2022 05:59 pmãã Ar> When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodesã Ar> from the Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter,ã Ar> there was an avalanche and their services got overloaded.ãã Ar> A month later all the newcomers had left for good.ãã Ar> People is not constant at all.ãã Social media sites need to have instant traction, and about 75% retention in the beginning or they're going to fail. I was involved with a crypto-based social media site last year. a year's worth of work was put into it, but it wasn't quite marketed right. It was too complex for the "average" person, it got overloaded with crypto-bros and only had about 25% retention (people signed up for the free crypto and didn't come back for the most part).ãããFortunately the guy in charge saw what was happening after a few weeks and pulled the plug. He released the code behind the site as FOSS so maybe someone in the future can run with it once some of the underlying issues are worked out.ãããAbout the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup are things like internet forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook has killed off a ton of those with "groups", but forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for information, especially if stuff is well organized. ããYou have to walk a very fine line though. if your topic is too "niche" your site won't gain enough traction to generate content so others can find you.ããDaiTenguãã... Not one hundred percent efficient, of course.but nothing ever is.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.comã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: DaiTengu to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 11:58 amãã > About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup are things like internetã > forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook has killed off a ton of those with "groups",ã > butã > forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for information, especiallyã > ifã > stuff is well organized.ããSo very true, DaiTengu. I was having an extensive conversation with other legacy forum admins over the past couple of weeks, and pointing out just how social media - in particularly, Facebook Groups, Reddit, and to a lesser extent, Discord - has radically displaced niche forums. But the loss of discoverability, thanks to Google penalizing user generated content on forums and the like, has rendered most forums - whether they are on Facebook or are independently operating - largely invisible.ããIf I were starting a new social media or community website today, I would focus on a super simple and intuitive interface with an emphasis on discovery, sharing, and ease of use. But then again, that's why we have Twitter and the federated alternatives on ActivityPub.ã-=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 10:57 amãã > That said, I do think that the temporary surge in the Fediverse will beã > short-lived. Social Networks depend upon the social networking effect, and yã > need a critical mass of users and interactivity to deal with that.ããYes and no.ããThe systems we think of when we talk about social network do depend on having aãcritical mass of users to be relevant, or they will fall back into obscurity asãfar as the public eye is concerned. However, a system does not need to beãpopular to be useful.ããAs I have said elsewhere, I don't care if the IRC server I host in my closet isãpopular or not if my three friends happen to be there.ãã--ãgopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalkenãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Arelor to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 2022 08:02 pmãã > The systems we think of when we talk about social network do depend onã > having a critical mass of users to be relevant, or they will fall back intoã > obscurity as far as the public eye is concerned. However, a system does notã > need to be popular to be useful.ã >ã > As I have said elsewhere, I don't care if the IRC server I host in my closetã > is popular or not if my three friends happen to be there.ããWell said. It always comes down to the use case for each person hosting the service.ã-=- Kaelon -=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to DaiTengu on Sat Apr 30 2022 04:35 pmãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: DaiTengu to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 11:58 amã > ã > > About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup arã > > things like internet forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook ã > > killed off a ton of those with "groups", butã > > forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search forã > > information, especially ifã > > stuff is well organized.ã > ã > So very true, DaiTengu. I was having an extensive conversation with other legacyã > forum admins over the past couple of weeks, and pointing out just how social mediã > in particularly, Facebook Groups, Reddit, and to a lesser extent, Discord - hasã > radically displaced niche forums. But the loss of discoverability, thanks to Gooã > penalizing user generated content on forums and the like, has rendered most forumã > whether they are on Facebook or are independently operating - largely invisible.ã > ã > If I were starting a new social media or community website today, I would focus oã > super simple and intuitive interface with an emphasis on discovery, sharing, andã > ease of use. But then again, that's why we have Twitter and the federatedã > alternatives on ActivityPub.ã > -=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-ã > ãIt is like we are living in a new Dark Age. The old websites have dissappeared,andã with Social Media, forum discussions are missing now too from web searched. It'sãfine for Google not to index general discussion (I'd prefer it doesn't), but whenãthe group on Facebook is about how to fix hardware, and people are sharingãsolutions, its good to be able to find these.ããFacebook is terrible for that, which is why people keep posting the same questionsãover and over again.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Sun May 01 2022 04:07 pmãã > It is like we are living in a new Dark Age. The old websites haveã > dissappeared,andã > with Social Media, forum discussions are missing now too from web searched.ã > It's fine for Google not to index general discussion (I'd prefer itã > doesn't), but when the group on Facebook is about how to fix hardware, andã > people are sharing solutions, its good to be able to find these.ã >ã > Facebook is terrible for that, which is why people keep posting the sameã > questions over and over again.ããCompletely agree with you. Web forums have always been pretty terrible for archival purposes, and even with public benefit organizations, like the Internet Archive and its Way Back Machine, findability and discovery are basically impossible and there are always limits.ããThe Dark Age of Social Media has with it very steep prices, but it does seem like there is, at the very least, a genuine awakening to the dangers and the loss of human knowledge that this poses. You are so right that people keep asking the same questions over and over again, and whether it's Facebook or Reddit or, even worse, Discord groups, it's impossible for people to build a collective knowledge to advance awareness.ã-=- Kaelon -=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to Boraxman on Sun May 01 2022 02:11 pmãã > Completely agree with you. Web forums have always been pretty terrible forã > archival purposes, and even with public benefit organizations, like theã > Internet Archive and its Way Back Machine, findability and discovery areã > basically impossible and there are always limits.ã > ã > The Dark Age of Social Media has with it very steep prices, but it does seemã > like there is, at the very least, a genuine awakening to the dangers and theã > loss of human knowledge that this poses. You are so right that people keepã > asking the same questions over and over again, and whether it's Facebook orã > Reddit or, even worse, Discord groups, it's impossible for people to build aã > collective knowledge to advance awareness.ã > -=- Kaelon -=-ããThe best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and putãtheir findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to find,ãbut you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some inlineãimages, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an archive hardãdisk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.ããIn the it will be book that stand the test of time, or patiently built digitalãarchives that are handed down.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 07:04 pmãã > The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, andã > put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder toã > find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, someã > inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to anã > archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.ããI love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.ããRe: your later statement about what will stand the test of time, as much as I like to think that a digital archive will be the enduring trove of our lifetimes, I am genuinely worried that the continuing obsolescence of media, operating systems, and formats will lead to a great Dark Age of knowledge, when computers of the future won't be able to read the files from today, let alone the 1980s or 1990s.ããPeople keep insisting that the best way to preserve knowledge is to print it out. I'm just glad that I never became a true digital native, despite having been raised in the 1980s and 1990s and growing up around systems. I always print pretty much everything; it's how my brain works!ã_____ã-=: Kaelon :=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-ãã > The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, andã > put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder toã > find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, someã > inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to anã > archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.ãã Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more oftenã Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous becauseã Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interestingã Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matterã Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when youã Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.ãã Ka> Re: your later statement about what will stand the test of time, asã Ka> much as I like to think that a digital archive will be the enduringã Ka> trove of our lifetimes, I am genuinely worried that the continuingã Ka> obsolescence of media, operating systems, and formats will lead to aã Ka> great Dark Age of knowledge, when computers of the future won't be ableã Ka> to read the files from today, let alone the 1980s or 1990s.ãã Ka> People keep insisting that the best way to preserve knowledge is toã Ka> print it out. I'm just glad that I never became a true digital native,ã Ka> despite having been raised in the 1980s and 1990s and growing up aroundã Ka> systems. I always print pretty much everything; it's how my brainã Ka> works! _____ããI did have a Geocities page. Like most people, the page was amateurish, andãheavily personalised. Created from scratch the way that I envisioned the webãpage to look, not based on a template. There are still such sites, though theyãare lost amongst the noise.ããA suspect a lot of sites now are AI generated, designed to game Google'sãalgorithms and bring in that sweet, sweet ad revenue.ããThere was an effort in the 80's to digitise the Domesday book. A decade and aãbit later, the original Domesday book can still be read, but the digitalãversion not so, because of changes in technology and obsolescence. In theãfuture, the difficulty will be finding it. We will have a similar problem toãwhat scholars in the middle ages had, when books weren't categorised or logged,ãbut where just put in piles, poorly titled, and one had to go through them allãto find information, or even just to determine what they were about.ããI still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager,ãdon't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's thatãexisted in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?ãã ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmãã > I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã > wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all theã > BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lostã > forever?ããVery well stated. And this is the tragedy, really, of our current digital ecosystem. In the late 1980s, my dad interviewed the entire family and built a comprehensive family tree stretching back into the 1400s -- which he then reconciled with Church records in Spain to go back even further! -- but he stored it on tape backup.ããTwo problems:ãã1. The tape backup, which for all you know may still be readable, depends upon hardware that is no longer produced.ãã2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in disks somewhere, but it's probably 5 1/4" disks rather than the somewhat-more-manageable 3 1/2", which also poses other media problems.ããBetween the loss of media inter-operability and format / software conversion, that entire labor - and the wealth of family knowledge from relatives who have since passed on - is, as far as the rest of the family is concerned, totally lost.ããHow do we even begin to solve problems as large as human history's recorded deficit, when we can't even deal with the BBS'es from the 1990s or family trees from the 1980s?ã_____ã-=: Kaelon :=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-ãã Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more oftenã Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous becauseã Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interestingã Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matterã Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when youã Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.ããWordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free plans, ãand you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress instance when ãyou're ready.ããI've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a FAQ ãthat are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.ãã Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at allã Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are nowã Bo> lost forever?ããI so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better ãbackups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and that's it.ããããããã Bo> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã Bo> Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgãã... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.ã--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmãã Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all theã Bo> BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lostã Bo> forever? ããWhen I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pmãã > When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto aã > CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.ããConsider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.ã_____ã-=: Kaelon :=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pmãã >> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it ontoã >> a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is stillã >> readable. ãã Ka> Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept dataã Ka> donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.ããThat's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I still run on my current BBS).ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 07:57 amãã > 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported orã > migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it inããFamily Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.ã-- ã digital man (rob)ããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #51:ãMODEM = Modulator/DemodulatorãNorco, CA WX: 58.8øF, 78.0% humidity, 4 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 10:16 pmãã > > 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported orã > > migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it inã >ã > Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.ããActually, I think that's the one. I'll have to check with my dad; he's off on a geriatric escape with fellow old fogeys to Spain, and I know he's thinking about the family tree stuff.ããI wonder what, if anything, we can do to read the data and convert it. Definitely a project worth him undertaking and me helping him out; the insights there are priceless.ã_____ã-=: Kaelon :=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pmãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmã >ã > Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã > Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at allã > Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are nowã > Bo> lost forever?ã >ã > When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto aã > CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.ã >ããit's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory, the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.ããeven in a perfect environment i had cds rotã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: Resurgence of non-maiã By: poindexter FORTRAN to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 08:30 amãã > Subject: Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > @MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>ã > @REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>ã > @TZ: c1e0ã > -=> Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-ã > ã > Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more oftenã > Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous becauseã > Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interestingã > Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matterã > Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when youã > Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.ã > ã > Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free plans,ã > and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress instance whenã > you're ready.ã > ã > I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a FAQã > that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.ã > ã > Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã > Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at allã > Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are nowã > Bo> lost forever?ã > ã > I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept betterã > backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and that's it.ã > ã > ã > ã > ã > ã > ã > Bo> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã > Bo> Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã > ã > ... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.ããMy cousin kept hard copies of important emails and other documents in a fireãresistant safe in his office in case of emergency. The safe was lost alongãwith everything else on the 35th floor of building one at the World TradeãCenter. The day after 9/11/01 he went back to work at their backup facilityãon Long Island. The backup facility was created because of the 1993 WTCãgarage bombing.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pmãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmã > ã > Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã > Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all ã > Bo> BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lostã > Bo> forever?ã > ã > When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-ã > ã > Nightfoxã > ãYou're lucky. Some older burnt CD's are fussy with regards to readers, andãsome de-laminated over time.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-ãã Ka> @MSGID: <627142DE.8494.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>ã Ka> @REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>ã Ka> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã Ka> By: Boraxman to Kaelon onã Ka> Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmãã > I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã > wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all theã > BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lostã > forever?ãã Ka> Very well stated. And this is the tragedy, really, of our currentã Ka> digital ecosystem. In the late 1980s, my dad interviewed the entireã Ka> family and built a comprehensive family tree stretching back into theã Ka> 1400s -- which he then reconciled with Church records in Spain to goã Ka> back even further! -- but he stored it on tape backup.ãã Ka> Two problems:ãã Ka> 1. The tape backup, which for all you know may still be readable,ã Ka> depends upon hardware that is no longer produced.ãã Ka> 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported orã Ka> migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it inã Ka> disks somewhere, but it's probably 5 1/4" disks rather than theã Ka> somewhat-more-manageable 3 1/2", which also poses other media problems.ãã Ka> Between the loss of media inter-operability and format / softwareã Ka> conversion, that entire labor - and the wealth of family knowledge fromã Ka> relatives who have since passed on - is, as far as the rest of theã Ka> family is concerned, totally lost.ãã Ka> How do we even begin to solve problems as large as human history'sã Ka> recorded deficit, when we can't even deal with the BBS'es from theã Ka> 1990s or family trees from the 1980s? _____ããThat is such a shame... I've moved away from proprietary software andãpropreitary formats, to storing important data in as an accessible format asãyou can. Plain text, or markup, or some schema that is still plain text (ie,ãXML or even an Emacs ORG mode file).ããYou may lose the software which manages it, but a text editor can still revealãthe data.ãã ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-ãã pF> @MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>ã pF> @REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>ã -=> Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-ãã Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more oftenã Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous becauseã Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interestingã Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matterã Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when youã Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.ãã pF> Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, freeã pF> plans, and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpressã pF> instance when you're ready.ãã pF> I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written aã pF> FAQ that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.ããI have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good, andãeasy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but decided to justãgo with plain HTML and CSS.ãã Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at allã Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are nowã Bo> lost forever?ãã pF> I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and keptã pF> better backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, andã pF> that's it.ãããSame, though in the 90's I didn't have money, being a student. I wish I keptãthe school work I did and bought more floppies to back things up I though Iãdidn't need anymore. But the hard drive I had was tiny, and I had no whereãelse but some floppies to put things, and they were limited. I have most of myãfiles from back then, going back to the stuff on 360K disks, but for someãreason, files I created myself I've been more willing to just delete when theãschool work or project was handed in. I really regret taping over my tape ofãCommodore 64 programs I wrote.ã ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 08:41 pmãã > That is such a shame... I've moved away from proprietary software andã > propreitary formats, to storing important data in as an accessible format asã > you can. Plain text, or markup, or some schema that is still plain textã > (ie, XML or even an Emacs ORG mode file).ã >ã > You may lose the software which manages it, but a text editor can stillã > reveal the data.ããI love this, and it's so true. I have a lot of WordPerfect 5.1 documents that, fortunately, I can still read on DOSBox, but if I just save them in standard plain text, I'll at least never have to worry about having to access that content through an interpreter that may, for all we know, suddenly stop working in some not-so-distant future.ã_____ã-=: Kaelon :=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 03:55 pmãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pmã >ã > >> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it ontoã > >> a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is stillã > >> readable.ã >ã > Ka> Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily acceptã > Ka> data donations, including software and underlying packages, forã > Ka> posterity.ã >ã > That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (includingã > RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which Iã > still run on my current BBS).ããBe sure to wipe passwords, phone numers, etc. too.ã-- ã digital man (rob)ããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #81:ãTelenet = Proprietary packet switched network (variant on X.75)ãNorco, CA WX: 74.1øF, 48.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Kaelon to Digital Man on Tue May 03 2022 10:45 pmãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 10:16 pmã >ã > > > 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported orã > > > migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have itã > > > inã >ã > > Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.ã >ã > Actually, I think that's the one. I'll have to check with my dad; he's offã > on a geriatric escape with fellow old fogeys to Spain, and I know he'sã > thinking about the family tree stuff.ã >ã > I wonder what, if anything, we can do to read the data and convert it.ã > Definitely a project worth him undertaking and me helping him out; theã > insights there are priceless.ããMy grandmother, in my case, collected all the data and stories into a wordãprocessor (Galaxy) and FTM. We helped her to print the entire tree on a dot matrix printer and then taped the pages together. Fun project, but not sure how much of that effort remains in a useable form. Now with 23andme and Ancestry, they can automate much of that work (through bloodlines, at least).ã-- ã digital man (rob)ããSling Blade quote #16:ãKarl Childers (to Doyle, re: lawn mower blade): I aim to kill you with it. Mmm.ãNorco, CA WX: 74.1øF, 48.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 11:18 amãã > My grandmother, in my case, collected all the data and stories into a wordã > processor (Galaxy) and FTM. We helped her to print the entire tree on a dotã > matrix printer and then taped the pages together. Fun project, but not sureã > how much of that effort remains in a useable form. Now with 23andme andã > Ancestry, they can automate much of that work (through bloodlines, atã > least).ããYes. I am definitely a big fan of those services and enjoy using them to trace my European lineage.ããOne of the reasons why we interviewed all of our elderly relatives, including great grandmother and great aunts and uncles on all lines, is that all of my family lines lead back to Spain by way of Cuba. Unfortunately, Ancestry.com and 23andMe largely rely upon North American census and service records, whereas much of the Caribbean and Mediterranean world relies upon handwritten -- and un-indexed! -- Church records, namely, baptisms, marriage certificates, and the like.ããã_____ã-=: Kaelon :=-ã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-ãã MR> @MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>ã MR> @REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>ã MR> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã MR> By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pmãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmã >ã > Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wouldã > Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at allã > Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are nowã > Bo> lost forever?ã >ã > When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto aã > CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.ã >ãã MR> it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory,ã MR> the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.ãã MR> even in a perfect environment i had cds rotããMine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deterioratedãaround the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.ããBut the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever readãthe disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of theãHard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.ã ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ãã Bo> I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good,ã Bo> and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, butã Bo> decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.ãã There's a package called Blosxsom that had promise - you leave textã files in a directory on a web server and Blosxom formats it, addsã headers/footers/sidebars/styles.ãã I like that idea.ãã I know there are a ton of static web page generators, WP is typicallyã overkill for most.ãã It would be nice for people to get back to publishing their ownã content again, although if you're looking to get your writing seen,ã you're better off on Medium or Substack.ããããã... Towards the insignificantã--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-ãã pF> @MSGID: <6273D46B.5137.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>ã pF> @REPLY: <62725ADD.5367.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>ã -=> Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ãã Bo> I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good,ã Bo> and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, butã Bo> decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.ãã pF> There's a package called Blosxsom that had promise - you leave textã pF> files in a directory on a web server and Blosxom formats it, addsã pF> headers/footers/sidebars/styles.ãã pF> I like that idea.ãã pF> I know there are a ton of static web page generators, WP is typicallyã pF> overkill for most.ãã pF> It would be nice for people to get back to publishing their ownã pF> content again, although if you're looking to get your writing seen,ã pF> you're better off on Medium or Substack.ããIt worries me that as things get more centralised, it would give these peopleãwho hold the keys more power to gatekeep. If substack is taken over or captureãby ideologues, a real threat for anything in a Western, especially Americanãcountry, then authors and views will be made to dissapear.ãã ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.orgã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu May 05 2022 08:36 pmãã > -=> MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-ã > ã > MR> @MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>ã > MR> @REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>ã > MR> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > MR> By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pmã > ã > > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > > By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pmã > >ã > > Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I woã > > Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at aã > > Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are nã > > Bo> lost forever?ã > >ã > > When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto aã > > CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.ã > >ã > ã > MR> it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory,ã > MR> the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.ã > ã > MR> even in a perfect environment i had cds rotã > ã > Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deterioratedã > around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.ã > ã > But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever readã > the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of theã > Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.ã > ããA couple of years back I noticed that Flagnet had a Facebook page. I was onãthere from 1991 to 1994, when they moved from Michigan to Indiana, andãdropped their local call in number. There were five or six BBS in my areaãthat I had continued using until 1997 when they finally moved to websites onãthe internet. Flagnet was primarily a Commodore user's site but open toãanyone. It was all run on an Amiga. The operator took it down around theãsame time others took their BBS' down in 96-97, but kept his machine inãstorage. Later on he brought it back out to access through Telnet, and beganãhaving problems due to bad capacitors and a leaky battery. A few years passedã and he found another Amiga locally. I don't know what he did wrong, but heãsomehow lost information when he hooked his external drives back up. Heãthouht he had CD backups, but they all went bad too. Lat time I asked himãabout it, he has made no plans to build up a new BBS from scratch.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.netã

Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-ãã Bo> It worries me that as things get more centralised, it would give theseã Bo> people who hold the keys more power to gatekeep. If substack is takenã Bo> over or capture by ideologues, a real threat for anything in a Western,ã Bo> especially American country, then authors and views will be made toã Bo> dissapear.ããOr, more subtly, political and ideological views that don't fit inãwith a perspective that the company running the site wants, either forãpolitical gain or profit, get buried, and you run into theã"manipulated feed" scenario we're in with Facebook.ãããã... If it isn't broken, I can fix it.ã--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.ã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed May 04 2022 11:16 amãã > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 03:55 pmã >ã > > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã > > By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pmã >ã > > >> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of itã > > ontoã > > >> a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is stillã > > >> readable.ã >ã > > Ka> Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily acceptã > > Ka> data donations, including software and underlying packages, forã > > Ka> posterity.ã >ã > > That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software thoughã > > (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBSã > > doors which I still run on my current BBS).ã >ã > Be sure to wipe passwords, phone numers, etc. too.ãããi wouldnt recommend uploading a bbs onto the internet archive unless you want some moron just taking it and running your bbs. i had a telegard bbs i ran zipped up for people to learn from. a guy just ran it because he said it was "just like" his old bbs. i'm sure it was not just like it. the guy was just lazy. he didn't change one damn thing, he didn't write any mods using my examples either.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrã By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu May 05 2022 08:36 pmãã >ã > Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deterioratedã > around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.ã >ã > But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever readã > the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of theã > Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.ãããmaybe flash drives are the way to go. one winter one broke off my keychain at work and through the whole season it was buried in snow and salt.ããi found it months later and it still worked!ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã