So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as aãJunior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity, andãI was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy whatãa plot twist...ããI don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed byãthe new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but feelãa little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out ofãme too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I askãquestions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in hisãvoice which really makes me feel stupid.ããAnother unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in theãthousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not oneãdocument describing how the system works or fits together. The smallestãassignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which isãannoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this theãfact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a totallyãunsure and frustrated new employee.ããWhy am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am veryãfrustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily I'mãnot the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, butãman is it hard! ããAlso, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their code?ãI swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I wouldãhave been productive so much faster!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Those first dev jobs bluesã By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36ãã Ze> Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in theirã Ze> code? I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code,ã Ze> I would have been productive so much faster!ããyou think they would, it would be more productive... but on the other hand.. ifãit is chinese company, there have been issues with motorola paying to have DMRãdeveloped for radios, etc and then then TYT or Pofung hires a couple of their ãdevelopers, along with as much code segment they can bring with them toãimplement into their own stuff. so it's possible the company wants to stay asãvague and segmented as possible with their code.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: Those first dev jobs bluesã By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36ãã > So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as aã > Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity, ãandã > I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy wãhatã > a plot twist...ã > ã > I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed bãyã > the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but feãelã > a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell outã ofã > me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I askã > questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in ãhisã > voice which really makes me feel stupid.ã > ã > Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in theã > thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not ãoneã > document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallestã > assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which iãsã > annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this theã > fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a totaãllyã > unsure and frustrated new employee.ã > ã > Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am veryã > frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily ãI'mã > not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, buãtã > man is it hard!ã > ã > Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their codãe?ã > I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I wouldã > have been productive so much faster!ã > .[0mããFriend, hang in there. Among you still have the passion for it, that passionãis what should motivate you to stay and stick with it.ããThe more senior developers should have been more open to the newer developersãand shouldn't expect the newer developers to know everything up front. That isãone thing I struggle with myself, and greatly appreciate the more experiencedãdevelopers guiding me with the system. I have been at this same position forãover 8 years, and I still don't know the system thourghly.ããI suspect that it is normal for software to not have comments to explain whatãit is doing. There is a standard where I work: comments should only be used toãexplain WHY the code is odd, not WHAT thr code is doing. The trade off here isãthat the code should be, "self-documented", meaning that it should use moreãmeaningful names and does one thing only, should be easy to read and follow.ããIt sounds like there is a lot of pressure to get code out the door as quicklyãas possible. This will lead to nasty cycles between new features followed byãcritical issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, Where I work isãlike that righr now: years of pressure to get new features done, leading toãenough unhappy customers question how we do things and logging a lot of criicalãissues.ããHang in there, bud. But keep other opportunities open. :)ãã-jagãCode it, script it, automate it!ãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USAã

Zet wrote to All <=-ãã Ze> So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job asã Ze> a Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given theã Ze> opportunity, and I was really looking forward to earning money forã Ze> doing what I love... Boy what a plot twist...ããSounds like a bit of a tough gig with some signs of poor company culture. Hangãin there, but worth keeping an eye open for greener pastures. I hope thingsãimprove for you.ããI think it is unreasonable for a company to expect you to know everything offãthe bat. Every company and job requires some learning - even the non techãrelated work I do these days requires some basic knowledge of the workplace andãwhere to find things I need, let alone something like software development.ããI also find the lack of comments a bit worrying, because I've always seenãcomments as valuable "in line" documentation, which help explain what the codeãdoes.ããã... Remember the immortal words of Socrates: "I drank what?"ã--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.ã

Re: Re: Those first dev jobs bluesã By: Vk3jed to Zet on Sat Jun 24 2017 17:22:00ããThanks a lot for the support guys! I really needed that!ããThe thing is just that this is my first dev job out of university, and it isãas far away from home (physically) as I possibly can be. I am also here on aãworking permit, and if I lose that (which I will if I lose the job), I'll beãsent back home. So I think there is an understandable amount of pressure on meãto sort of... make this work. It doesn't really look like I would be losing theãjob, but this is the sort of thing that is on my mind everytime that I get aãsnarky answer or a disappointed look...ããWith regards to the other devs; I don't think that they are doing this onãpurpose. The two guys I work with in a team have been working together for theãpast 4 - 5 years, so I am sure that they can read each other's code andãimmediately understand what is going on. They have obviously also worked onãthis project for a long time and know exactly where everything is... I haveãtried to tell them that I am a little overwhelmed, and then they do try to slowãdown and explain as much as they can to me, but of course there is work to beãdone and they can't just stop everything to explain it to some new guy...ããAll of this sounds super rational to me, but now the problem is that they keepãdropping hints that I am not contributing enough. I have only been in this jobãfor 6 weeks, and I honestly doubt that anyone would (directly out of universityãand without any experience) just walk in and just take over.ããI think the biggest issue is the fact that these guys have been workingãtogether for too long, and lost touch with what it's like to be new and have anãinexperienced person in the team.ããAnd documentation would have helped. That way I could have done more on my ownãand independetly get to know the system...ããAgain, this is just me venting and trying to make myself feel better.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Re: Those first dev jobs bluesã By: Zet to All on Tue Jun 27 2017 11:51 amããã > With regards to the other devs; I don't think that they are doing this onã > purpose. The two guys I work with in a team have been working together forã > the past 4 - 5 years, so I am sure that they can read each other's code andã > immediately understand what is going on. They have obviously also worked onã > this project for a long time and know exactly where everything is... I haveã > tried to tell them that I am a little overwhelmed, and then they do try toã > slow down and explain as much as they can to me, but of course there is workã > to be done and they can't just stop everything to explain it to some newã > guy...ãã > All of this sounds super rational to me, but now the problem is that theyã > keep dropping hints that I am not contributing enough. I have only been inã > this job for 6 weeks, and I honestly doubt that anyone would (directly outã > of university and without any experience) just walk in and just take over.ãã > I think the biggest issue is the fact that these guys have been workingã > together for too long, and lost touch with what it's like to be new and haveã > an inexperienced person in the team.ããããtoday at work i sat at my desk and listened to the radio.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Those first dev jobs bluesã By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 05:44 pmãã > Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in theirã > code?ããNo, that is very unusual. In addition to comments, there should (normally) beãarchitecture and design documents, requirements documents, user documents, testãplans, etc. If you don't have these documents or comments in the code, itãsounds like a very unprofessional organization there.ããã digital manããSynchronet "Real Fact" #11:ãDOVE-Net was originally an exclusive ("elite") WWIVnet network in O.C., Calif.ãNorco, CA WX: 72.1øF, 47.0% humidity, 1 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Those first dev jobs bluesã By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 05:44 pmãã Ze> I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmedã Ze> by the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot helpã Ze> but feel a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidatesã Ze> the hell out of me too. He's been working on the system since theã Ze> beginning, and when I ask questions, he always answers it with this "howã Ze> don't you know that" tone in his voice which really makes me feel stupid.ããThere seems to be a lot of that out there.. It depends on the company, too. ãLarge companies, particularly high-tech companies that hire many softwareãdevelopers, seem to have a higher chance of that happening. Softwareãdevelopers seem to be an opinionated bunch. Many of them like their own way ofãdoing things and often question other developers' ways of doing things ifãdifferent from their own. And some may not understand that not everyone hasãhad the same training, so some might have a "how don't you know that" tone asãyou've mentioned.ãã Ze> Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in theã Ze> thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there existsã Ze> not one document describing how the system works or fits together. Theã Ze> smallest assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actuallyã Ze> developing, which is annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to myã Ze> insecurity. Add to this the fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking theã Ze> language, and you have a totally unsure and frustrated new employee.ããI've also seen a lot of code that isn't well commented. It seems that manyãsoftware developers just aren't in the habit of commenting their code well.. ãIt frustrates me too. And some will even encourage "self-documenting code". Iãdon't think that's always feasable.. Sometimes, the code doesn't make itãtotally obvious what it's doing. Also, I think it's important to know not onlyãwhat the code is doing, but why. The *why* is a good thing to put in theãcomments.ãOne thing that also surprised me is that some companies don't have muchãdocumentation on the project in general. And when I was in college, we learnedãabout software design documents such as class diagrams, sequence diagrams,ãetc. (UML), and it seems many software developers don't know about those, so ofãcourse they aren't going to create such design documents..ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

On 2017-06-24 05:17 AM, jagossel wrote:

Re: Those first dev jobs blues
By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36

> So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a
> Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity,
and
> I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy w
hat
> a plot twist...
>
> I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed b
y
> the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but fe
el
> a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out
of
> me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask
> questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in
his
> voice which really makes me feel stupid.
>
> Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the
> thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not
one
> document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest
> assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which i
s
> annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the
> fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a tota
lly
> unsure and frustrated new employee.
>
> Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very
> frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily
I'm
> not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, bu
t
> man is it hard!
>
> Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their cod
e?
> I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would
> have been productive so much faster!
> .[0m

Friend, hang in there. Among you still have the passion for it, that passion is what should motivate you to stay and stick with it.

The more senior developers should have been more open to the newer developers and shouldn't expect the newer developers to know everything up front. That is
one thing I struggle with myself, and greatly appreciate the more experienced developers guiding me with the system. I have been at this same position for over 8 years, and I still don't know the system thourghly.

I suspect that it is normal for software to not have comments to explain what it is doing. There is a standard where I work: comments should only be used to
explain WHY the code is odd, not WHAT thr code is doing. The trade off here is
that the code should be, "self-documented", meaning that it should use more meaningful names and does one thing only, should be easy to read and follow.

It sounds like there is a lot of pressure to get code out the door as quickly as possible. This will lead to nasty cycles between new features followed by critical issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, Where I work is
like that righr now: years of pressure to get new features done, leading to enough unhappy customers question how we do things and logging a lot of criical
issues.

Hang in there, bud. But keep other opportunities open. :)

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

So wise. So wise. :)

---
* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA