Howdy Hi,ãI found and was playing with menushel.src/bin menushell.js and menuedit.js.ãVery cool concept, but whole the generated menu/shell navigates menus fine, and will execute externals just fine, any internal commands throw an Error of:ããError: 'BBS' instance: No Private Data or Class MismatchããThis looks to be related to how commands are being called in menu-commands.js, but I don't see any reason offhand it shouldn't be working. Is this a known issue? Am I missing an include somewhere? Any other documentation related to any of it exist?ããThanks.ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to All on Sat Aug 22 2020 05:14 pmãã > Howdy Hi,ã > I found and was playing with menushel.src/bin menushell.js and menuedit.js.ã > Very cool concept, but whole the generated menu/shell navigates menus fine,ã > and will execute externals just fine, any internal commands throw an Errorã > of:ã >ã > Error: 'BBS' instance: No Private Data or Class Mismatchã >ã > This looks to be related to how commands are being called inã > menu-commands.js, but I don't see any reason offhand it shouldn't beã > working. Is this a known issue? Am I missing an include somewhere? Any otherã > documentation related to any of it exist?ããI one time, it used to be possible to execute methods of one built-in object with the "this" pointing to another object. It was a (bad) bug that allowed that to work and when it didn't work, it was bad too.ãHere are the details:ãhttps://gitlab.synchro.net/sbbs/sbbs/-/commit/6f83c4ff9489fcf0ef66b48b6080959790170755ããSo, I'm guessing that the menushell experiment is using Object.apply() incorrectly and that needs to be fixed.ãã digital manããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #40:ãIBM437 = Code Page 437 (so-called IBM Extended ASCII)ãNorco, CA WX: 84.5øF, 54.0% humidity, 13 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to All on Sat Aug 22 2020 17:14:08ãã Un> I found and was playing with menushel.src/bin menushell.js and menuedit.js.ããThis was an experiment / proof of concept, and I highly recommend against using it. The code is a disaster.ãã Un> Error: 'BBS' instance: No Private Data or Class MismatchããA sign of wacky JS shenanigans happening. I never ran into that error back when I wrote the thing (it all worked at least) but something must've changed since then.ãã Un> This looks to be related to how commands are being called in menu-commands.js, but I don't see anyã Un> reason offhand it shouldn't be working. Is this a known issue? Am I missing an include somewhere?ã Un> Any other documentation related to any of it exist? ããTreat the entire thing as "shouldn't be working". There are probably a lot of other problems lurking than just this error. These scripts would need a lot of rehab or rewrite before I would recommend that anyone use them.ãã---ãechickenãelectronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: echicken to Underminer on Sat Aug 22 2020 11:05 pmãã Un>> I found and was playing with menushel.src/bin menushell.js andã Un>> menuedit.js. ãã ec> This was an experiment / proof of concept, and I highly recommend againstã ec> using it. The code is a disaster. ãã ec> Treat the entire thing as "shouldn't be working". There are probably a lotã ec> of other problems lurking than just this error. These scripts would need aã ec> lot of rehab or rewrite before I would recommend that anyone use them. ããThat reminds me, I was curious if you plan to update menuedit.js, or do you no longer have much interest in it?ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to echicken on Sat Aug 22 2020 21:10:36ãã Ni> That reminds me, I was curious if you plan to update menuedit.js, or do you no longer have muchã Ni> interest in it? ããI have no use for it myself, so "interest" is sort of meh. I'd rewrite it as a public service if it's something that people (mostly new sysops) want.ããThe core idea was to create something that generates a menu spec (an INI or JSON file) which can be read and handled by any number of command shell templates. (I think I made a basic hotkey shell and a lightbar one.)ããIt worked, but I wasn't thrilled with it and never really recommended its use. I imagine I could do a better job today.ãã---ãechickenãelectronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: echicken to Nightfox on Sun Aug 23 2020 12:43 pmãã Ni>> That reminds me, I was curious if you plan to update menuedit.js, orã Ni>> do you no longer have much interest in it? ãã ec> I have no use for it myself, so "interest" is sort of meh. I'd rewrite itã ec> as a public service if it's something that people (mostly new sysops)ã ec> want. ãã ec> The core idea was to create something that generates a menu spec (an INIã ec> or JSON file) which can be read and handled by any number of command shellã ec> templates. (I think I made a basic hotkey shell and a lightbar one.) ãã ec> It worked, but I wasn't thrilled with it and never really recommended itsã ec> use. I imagine I could do a better job today. ããI imagine new Synchronet sysops might find something like that useful. When I started using Synchronet, I think one of the most different things about Synchronet I noticed was that it uses command shells for its menu system and doesn't have a menu editor like many other BBS packages do.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: echicken to Underminer on Sat Aug 22 2020 11:05 pmãã ec> Treat the entire thing as "shouldn't be working". There are probably a lotã ec> of other problems lurking than just this error. These scripts would need aã ec> lot of rehab or rewrite before I would recommend that anyone use them. ããYeah, that's fair. Just seemed like a wonderful thing to discover as back in my RA days I used to like doing minor tweaks to menu trees on a fairly regular basis. Not that this is impossible with BAJA or JS, it just feels like more of a chore...ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to echicken on Sun Aug 23 2020 10:22 amãã Ni> I imagine new Synchronet sysops might find something like that useful.ã Ni> When I started using Synchronet, I think one of the most different thingsã Ni> about Synchronet I noticed was that it uses command shells for its menuã Ni> system and doesn't have a menu editor like many other BBS packages do. ããAnd that's probably a component as to why 80% of synchronet installs are all the default shell and menu structure. Synchronet is wonderfully powerfull for customization, but the learning curve to doing so is somewhat steep.ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to Nightfox on Sun Aug 23 2020 01:25 pmãã Un> Re: Menushell.jsã Un> By: Nightfox to echicken on Sun Aug 23 2020 10:22 amãã Ni>> I imagine new Synchronet sysops might find something like thatã Ni>> useful. When I started using Synchronet, I think one of the mostã Ni>> different things about Synchronet I noticed was that it uses commandã Ni>> shells for its menu system and doesn't have a menu editor like manyã Ni>> other BBS packages do. ãã Un> And that's probably a component as to why 80% of synchronet installs areã Un> all the default shell and menu structure. Synchronet is wonderfullyã Un> powerfull for customization, but the learning curve to doing so isã Un> somewhat steep.ãããif you're using baja its pretty easyã ãcmdkey xã[command]ãend_cmdããthat's all you gotta do is look up the docs, see what commands do what and put it in there and compile.ããi suggest getting the renegade clone and changing the commands and screens.ãpretty easy to do. then you can add more as you need it.ããi can understand how .js scares people away because it seems like a lot more code and it's all indented and and it overloads the average joe.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to Nightfox on Sun Aug 23 2020 01:25 pmãã Ni>> I imagine new Synchronet sysops might find something like thatã Ni>> useful. When I started using Synchronet, I think one of the mostã Ni>> different things about Synchronet I noticed was that it uses commandã Ni>> shells for its menu system and doesn't have a menu editor like manyã Ni>> other BBS packages do. ãã Un> And that's probably a component as to why 80% of synchronet installs areã Un> all the default shell and menu structure. Synchronet is wonderfullyã Un> powerfull for customization, but the learning curve to doing so isã Un> somewhat steep.ããI was already a software engineer when I started using Synchronet, so I was able to make my own custom command shell right away, but I was somewhat surprised that level of coding is necessary to customize the menu structure & commands. I don't mind programming a command shell, as it allows great flexibility, but I definitely think a menu editor of some kind would be useful, particularly for new Synchronet sysops or those who dodn't want to have to do so much coding.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to Underminer on Sun Aug 23 2020 05:35 pmãã MR> if you're using baja its pretty easyã MR> cmdkey xã MR> [command]ã MR> end_cmdã MR> that's all you gotta do is look up the docs, see what commands do what andããYes, that's what I've been doing for years. Just thought an alternative would be a nice change and a little less tedious ;)ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to Underminer on Sun Aug 23 2020 05:35 pmãã Un>> And that's probably a component as to why 80% of synchronetã Un>> installs are all the default shell and menu structure. Synchronetã Un>> is wonderfully powerfull for customization, but the learning curveã Un>> to doing so is somewhat steep.ããã MR> if you're using baja its pretty easyãã MR> cmdkey xã MR> [command]ã MR> end_cmdãã MR> that's all you gotta do is look up the docs, see what commands do what andã MR> put it in there and compile. ãã MR> i suggest getting the renegade clone and changing the commands andã MR> screens. pretty easy to do. then you can add more as you need it.ãã MR> i can understand how .js scares people away because it seems like a lotã MR> more code and it's all indented and and it overloads the average joe. ---ããI find JS easier than Baja.. And some things in JS actually require fewer lines of code than Baja - For instance, you don't need an "end_cmd" type of thing in JS. You can use curly braces in JS, but if there's just one line of code in the block, you don't need curly braces.. But I suppose I naturally find JavaScript easier since I was already a software developer.ããAlso I've found that text parsing (and sometimes text splicing) is something I've had to do fairly often with my Synchronet mods. For instance, reading a configuration file and parsing the settings into variables to be used in the JS script. JS has things that make it really easy to work with strings, such as regular expressions (for text matching), and it's fairly easy to do string searches, splitting, etc. with JS. I'm not sure how easy that kind of thing would be in Baja. It's been a long time since I've done Baja, so I may have forgotten.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Aug 23 2020 05:35 pmãã Ni> I find JS easier than Baja.. And some things in JS actually require fewerã Ni> lines of code than Baja - For instance, you don't need an "end_cmd" typeã Ni> of thing in JS. You can use curly braces in JS, but if there's just oneãããwell you are in the minority and also i disagree with the lines of code.ããmost people say that you have to be a programmer to run synchronet because of the .js stuff.ããwhen .js for synchronet first came out, i was excited at first but i couldnt find enough material on it to learn from. after that, i was busy with working and now i'm at an age where i dont give a shit about anything bbs wise.ãã Ni> matching), and it's fairly easy to do string searches, splitting, etc.ã Ni> with JS. I'm not sure how easy that kind of thing would be in Baja. It'sã Ni> been a long time since I've done Baja, so I may have forgotten.ããback when i was at my peak i could make the bbs turn purple and shit with bajaã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Aug 23 2020 05:35 pmãã Ni> I find JS easier than Baja.. And some things in JS actually require fewerã Ni> lines of code than Baja - For instance, you don't need an "end_cmd" typeã Ni> of thing in JS. You can use curly braces in JS, but if there's just oneã Ni> line of code in the block, you don't need curly braces.. But I suppose Iã Ni> naturally find JavaScript easier since I was already a software developer.ããThat entirely depends on what *Kind* of development you're doing as a developer; some of us don't use a whole lot of JS in our daily work. That said JS is reasonably quick to pick up for anyone who has dealt with similar languages, and I'm quite happy to have the available flexibility that it offers, but I think for someone just getting some customization started who isn't overly familiar that BAJA may be a little quicker to pick up. The possibility exists that I'm dead wrong on that though.ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to Nightfox on Mon Aug 24 2020 12:03 amãã > Re: Menushell.jsã > By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Aug 23 2020 05:35 pmã >ã > Ni> I find JS easier than Baja.. And some things in JS actually requireã > Ni> fewer lines of code than Baja - For instance, you don't need anã > Ni> "end_cmd" type of thing in JS. You can use curly braces in JS, but ifã > Ni> there's just one line of code in the block, you don't need curlyã > Ni> braces.. But I suppose I naturally find JavaScript easier since I wasã > Ni> already a software developer.ã >ã > That entirely depends on what *Kind* of development you're doing as aã > developer; some of us don't use a whole lot of JS in our daily work. Thatã > said JS is reasonably quick to pick up for anyone who has dealt with similarã > languages, and I'm quite happy to have the available flexibility that itã > offers, but I think for someone just getting some customization started whoã > isn't overly familiar that BAJA may be a little quicker to pick up. Theã > possibility exists that I'm dead wrong on that though.ããBaja was before JavaScript or most of the other cool modern scripting languages were even invented. There were already many better scripting languages (if it requires compilation before executing, is it still a "script"?), but I didn't know of any open source ones at the time and I really only "needed" something simple. The design was could be described as "emergent", not really designed ahead of time. The result is kind of a cross between BASIC, assembler and some C. Baja shouldn't be familiar to anyone, really, and it stopped improving or evolving around 2001 when discovered the Mozilla JavaScript-C library (SpiderMonkey) and relatively easily shoe-horned that into Synchronet.ããNow, I did have some very "high level" functions in Baja, where'd you call a function and it'd go off into a major part of hard-coded BBS functions with zero-control from the Baja module. I still have all that available in the JS object model (the 'bbs' object methods), but we also have fine-grained functionality. The language is *way* better than Baja and the number of functions/methods and properties available to the script-writer blows Baja away.ããSo... yeah, JS > Baja. :-)ãã digital manããSling Blade quote #20:ãDoyle: Hey is this the kind of retard that drools and rubs shit in his hair?ãNorco, CA WX: 74.7øF, 77.0% humidity, 0 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Digital Man to Underminer on Sun Aug 23 2020 11:51 pmãã DM> as "emergent", not really designed ahead of time. The result is kind of aã DM> cross between BASIC, assembler and some C. Baja shouldn't be familiar toã DM> anyone, really, and it stopped improving or evolving around 2001 whenã DM> with zero-control from the Baja module. I still have all that available inã DM> the JS object model (the 'bbs' object methods), but we also haveã DM> fine-grained functionality. The language is *way* better than Baja and theã DM> number of functions/methods and properties available to the script-writerã DM> blows Baja away. ã DM> So... yeah, JS > Baja. :-)ããOh, undoubtedly. I was just trying to suggest that if someone were coming in new with no previous programming experience, Baja seems to me like it might feel more accessible. :)ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to Digital Man on Mon Aug 24 2020 01:43 amãã > Oh, undoubtedly. I was just trying to suggest that if someone were coming in

new with no previous programming experience, Baja seems to me like it might feel more accessible. :) --- Underminer

I appreciate what you are saying Underminer. The coders want to argue which is better Baja or JS. As a BBS Sysop I am interested in Customizing the looks of the BBS. The cosmetics so to speak. I also want to do this without crashing the damn thing because I'm messing with internal code. As a dumb SysOp I would love to see a menu editor built in to Synchronet like so many other BBS packages. But that's never going to happen. The Synchronet coders are going to claim how easy it is to write Baja and Javascript.
ãHusTlerã havens.synchro.net:23ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: HusTler to Underminer on Mon Aug 24 2020 07:59:39ãã Hu> I appreciate what you are saying Underminer. The coders want to argue which is better Baja or JS. AsããThere's nothing to argue. Except for the learning curve, JS is better. If you find Baja easier to learn and can accomplish your goal within its limitations, it's a viable option. That pretty much covers it.ãã Hu> SysOp I would love to see a menu editor built in to Synchronet like so many other BBS packages. Butã Hu> that's never going to happen.ããWe're in a thread about how I wrote a menu editor, it used to work, now it doesn't, and we're discussing the merits of revisiting the idea. That's hardly a "never going to happen" scenario. It happened before, it can happen again.ãã Hu> The Synchronet coders are going to claim how easy it is to write Bajaã Hu> and Javascript. ããIf that were a good enough answer, I never would've pursued the idea in the first place, people wouldn't periodically ask for this feature, and one of the more frequent "complaints" about Synchronet wouldn't exist.ããI can see that you're a hard-talkin' straight-shootin' old-school sysop who likes to get shit done. If you have some thoughts about features you'd like to see in a menu editor, please share.ãã---ãechickenãelectronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to Nightfox on Mon Aug 24 2020 12:03 amãã Un> That entirely depends on what *Kind* of development you're doing as aã Un> developer; some of us don't use a whole lot of JS in our daily work. Thatã Un> said JS is reasonably quick to pick up for anyone who has dealt withã Un> similar languages, and I'm quite happy to have the available flexibilityã Un> that it offers, but I think for someone just getting some customizationã Un> started who isn't overly familiar that BAJA may be a little quicker toã Un> pick up. The possibility exists that I'm dead wrong on that though. ---ããI've never really used JavaScript much in my work. I had just used it a little bit here and there, so I was somewhat familiar with it already, so it wasn't too difficult for me to pick up. So I'm mostly familiar with JS now due to my use of JS with Synchronet. But JS with Synchronet is different from its typical use as a web language though.. I'm still not too experienced with interacting with a web page DOM using JS. However I have embedded JS into a couple of C++ projects at one of my previous jobs, which was interesting.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

HusTler wrote to Underminer <=-ãã > Oh, undoubtedly. I was just trying to suggest that if someone were coming inã > new with no previous programming experience, Baja seems to me like it mightã > feel more accessible. :) --- Underminerãã Hu> I appreciate what you are saying Underminer. The coders want toã Hu> argue which is better Baja or JS. As a BBS Sysop I am interestedã Hu> in Customizing the looks of the BBS. The cosmetics so to speak. Iã Hu> also want to do this without crashing the damn thing because I'mã Hu> messing with internal code. As a dumb SysOp I would love to see aã Hu> menu editor built in to Synchronet like so many other BBSã Hu> packages. But that's never going to happen. The Synchronet codersã Hu> are going to claim how easy it is to write Baja and Javascript.ããYou don't need a menu editor to have custom menus. I know ãvirtually nothing about either JS or Baja, and pretty much every ãsingle menu / disply file on my system is custom. Make an ANSI ãmenu with something like TheDraw (or Moebius or Pablodraw), and ãthen convert it (with the utilities included with SBBS) into an ãASC or MSG file. Done.ããAlso, I have made some fairly minor changes to the default.src ãmenu shell file, and recompiled it with Baja. Extremely simple to ãdo (instructions on the Wiki), and no programming skill required. ãIt's just a text file and it's very obvious how to edit it for ãminor changes.ããGet out of the box and learn something.ãããã... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to Underminer on Mon Aug 24 2020 08:05 amãã Ni> I've never really used JavaScript much in my work. I had just used it aã Ni> little bit here and there, so I was somewhat familiar with it already, soã Ni> it wasn't too difficult for me to pick up. So I'm mostly familiar with JSã Ni> now due to my use of JS with Synchronet. But JS with Synchronet isã Ni> different from its typical use as a web language though.. I'm still notã Ni> too experienced with interacting with a web page DOM using JS. However Iã Ni> have embedded JS into a couple of C++ projects at one of my previous jobs,ã Ni> which was interesting. ããYeah, most of the "javascript" or javascript ajacent interactions I have on a daily basis are with coffeescript or ajax, so I do find myself having to stop and think a bit sometimes due to slight differences that are fairly automatic. You are absolutely right though, that it's typically DOM related concerns that trip people up, and that's thankfully absent here.ã---ãUnderminerãThe Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423ãFidonet: 1:342/17ã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423ã

On 8/23/2020 5:35 PM, Nightfox wrote:

I find JS easier than Baja.. And some things in JS actually require fewer lines of code than Baja - For instance, you don't need an "end_cmd" type of thing in JS. You can use curly braces in JS, but if there's just one line of code in the block, you don't need curly braces.. But I suppose I naturally find JavaScript easier since I was already a software developer.

Also I've found that text parsing (and sometimes text splicing) is something I've had to do fairly often with my Synchronet mods. For instance, reading a configuration file and parsing the settings into variables to be used in the JS script. JS has things that make it really easy to work with strings, such as regular expressions (for text matching), and it's fairly easy to do string searches, splitting, etc. with JS. I'm not sure how easy that kind of thing would be in Baja. It's been a long time since I've done Baja, so I may have forgotten.

I think about the only Baja I ever did was to work around missing pieces
of the JS api really early on or to load my JS shell. I've been doing
JS since the mid-90's so when I put my bbs up in early 2002, JS was just
a natural thing for me. Of course now, I would do things a bit
differently than I did at the time and the Sync API for JS is much more flushed out than the early 2000's.

I've been pretty happy with most of it, though these days I'm more
inclined to bypass sync's web server to host the web portion... and I've
also been following Enigma with a lot of interrest.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

On 8/24/2020 8:05 AM, Nightfox wrote:

I've never really used JavaScript much in my work. I had just used it a little bit here and there, so I was somewhat familiar with it already, so it wasn't too difficult for me to pick up. So I'm mostly familiar with JS now due to my use of JS with Synchronet. But JS with Synchronet is different from its typical use as a web language though.. I'm still not too experienced with interacting with a web page DOM using JS. However I have embedded JS into a couple of C++ projects at one of my previous jobs, which was interesting.

Most of the ecosystem around JS is with CommonJS (cjs) and EcmaScript
Modules (esm) starting to become more common. I think this really
solidified with NodeJS and as a result most JS tooling build in JS
utilizing NodeJS.

For the most part, most of my first versions of everything these days
targets NodeJS. I wrote a C# library around 2003 or so to parse node
and user data to put Sync stuff into a .Net website. I've been thinking
about creating a more flushed out set of libraries to do the same in Node.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

On 8/24/2020 7:29 AM, Gamgee wrote:

You don't need a menu editor to have custom menus. I know
virtually nothing about either JS or Baja, and pretty much every
single menu / disply file on my system is custom. Make an ANSI
menu with something like TheDraw (or Moebius or Pablodraw), and
then convert it (with the utilities included with SBBS) into an
ASC or MSG file. Done.

Also, I have made some fairly minor changes to the default.src
menu shell file, and recompiled it with Baja. Extremely simple to
do (instructions on the Wiki), and no programming skill required.
It's just a text file and it's very obvious how to edit it for
minor changes.

Get out of the box and learn something.

Depending on the source ansi, I tend to favor a separate (simpler) file
for .asc/msg menu displays.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Underminer to Digital Man on Mon Aug 24 2020 01:43 amãã > Oh, undoubtedly. I was just trying to suggest that if someone were coming inã > new with no previous programming experience, Baja seems to me like it mightã > feel more accessible. :)ããI suppose that's possible. Still, it's on the chopping block. :-)ããI encourage someone to try creating a menu-generator/editor approach. Both echicken and myself have made attempts, but nothing stuck (yet).ãã digital manããSling Blade quote #5:ãKarl Childers (to father): You ought not killed my little brother...ãNorco, CA WX: 90.7øF, 45.0% humidity, 16 mph N wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: HusTler to Underminer on Mon Aug 24 2020 07:59 amãã > SysOp I would love to see a menu editor built in to Synchronet like so manyã > other BBS packages. But that's never going to happen. The Synchronet codersã > are going to claim how easy it is to write Baja and Javascript.ããOh don't say that. It's certainly not impossible.ããã digital manããSynchronet "Real Fact" #22:ãThe second ever Synchronet BBS was the Mid-Nite Hacker BBS (sysop: The Zapper).ãNorco, CA WX: 90.7øF, 45.0% humidity, 16 mph N wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to Underminer on Mon Aug 24 2020 08:05 amãã > experienced with interacting with a web page DOM using JS. However I haveã > embedded JS into a couple of C++ projects at one of my previous jobs, whichã > was interesting.ããCool - which JS engine/library did you/they use?ãã digital manããSling Blade quote #3:ãKarl (re: killing Doyle): That second one just plum near cut his head in two.ãNorco, CA WX: 90.7øF, 45.0% humidity, 16 mph N wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Aug 24 2020 04:08 pmãã >> experienced with interacting with a web page DOM using JS. However Iã >> have embedded JS into a couple of C++ projects at one of my previousã >> jobs, which was interesting.ãã DM> Cool - which JS engine/library did you/they use?ããIt was the Mozilla JavaScript engine. Initially I tried using Google's JS engine, but it seemed a bit complicated to embed. Then I looked at Mozilla's JS engine (I was inspired to use it due to Synchronet), and I was able to embed Mozilla's JS engine into a couple of C++ test applications.ããWe also had a version of that project supporting iOS and Mac OS X, and we found that Apple's XCode included an embedded JS engine, so we used Apple's included JS engine for that stuff. I don't remember if that JS engine was made by Apple or if they had included another JS engine. It may have been Google's JS engine or Mozilla, but I don't remember for sure.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Mon Aug 24 2020 06:34 pmãã > Re: Menushell.jsã > By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Aug 24 2020 04:08 pmã >ã > >> experienced with interacting with a web page DOM using JS. However Iã > >> have embedded JS into a couple of C++ projects at one of my previousã > >> jobs, which was interesting.ã >ã > DM> Cool - which JS engine/library did you/they use?ã >ã > It was the Mozilla JavaScript engine. Initially I tried using Google's JSã > engine, but it seemed a bit complicated to embed. Then I looked atã > Mozilla's JS engine (I was inspired to use it due to Synchronet), and I wasã > able to embed Mozilla's JS engine into a couple of C++ test applications.ããCool. What version of SpiderMonkey, if you remember?ããI embedded SpiderMonkey into a set-top box test application (at work) with a web UI back in the early 2000's, about the same time I chose it for Synchronet's FTP server and eventually everything else.ããAnd now, I think it's about time to remove JS support from Synchronet's FTP server! :-)ãã > We also had a version of that project supporting iOS and Mac OS X, and weã > found that Apple's XCode included an embedded JS engine, so we used Apple'sã > included JS engine for that stuff. I don't remember if that JS engine wasã > made by Apple or if they had included another JS engine. It may have beenã > Google's JS engine or Mozilla, but I don't remember for sure.ããAh, cool. I might take a look at v8 again, but I'm planning to update to the latest SpiderMonkey at some point, which is expected to be painful.ãã digital manããSling Blade quote #19:ãDoyle: I can't so much as drink a damn glass of water around a midgetãNorco, CA WX: 79.0øF, 62.0% humidity, 9 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-ãã > You don't need a menu editor to have custom menus. I knowã > virtually nothing about either JS or Baja, and pretty much everyã > single menu / disply file on my system is custom. Make an ANSIã > menu with something like TheDraw (or Moebius or Pablodraw), andã > then convert it (with the utilities included with SBBS) into anã > ASC or MSG file. Done.ãã Tr> Depending on the source ansi, I tend to favor a separateã Tr> (simpler) file for .asc/msg menu displays.ããI'm not really sure what you mean by that.ãããã... My best pigeon dodged hawks and farmer's guns to bring you this.ã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52ã þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FLã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Aug 24 2020 08:09 pmãã >> It was the Mozilla JavaScript engine. Initially I tried usingã >> Google's JS engine, but it seemed a bit complicated to embed. Then Iã >> looked at Mozilla's JS engine (I was inspired to use it due toã >> Synchronet), and I was able to embed Mozilla's JS engine into a coupleã >> of C++ test applications. ãã DM> Cool. What version of SpiderMonkey, if you remember?ããI don't remember offhand. It was about 5 years ago.ãã DM> I embedded SpiderMonkey into a set-top box test application (at work) withã DM> a web UI back in the early 2000's, about the same time I chose it forã DM> Synchronet's FTP server and eventually everything else. ããThat sounds cool.ãã DM> Ah, cool. I might take a look at v8 again, but I'm planning to update toã DM> the latest SpiderMonkey at some point, which is expected to be painful. ããI think the main appeal of Google's V8 engine was that it was supposed to be very fast. But for something that's embedded into the apps we were using, I think Mozilla's JS engine was plenty fast. What benefit do you think there would be to using Google's V8 JS engine over Mozilla's JS engine with Synchronet?ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: echicken to HusTler on Mon Aug 24 2020 11:00 amãã > I can see that you're a hard-talkin' straight-shootin' old-school sysop who

likes to get shit done. If you have some thoughts about features you'd like see in a menu editor, please share.

Nah. I can't compete with you guys. DM, Nightfox and MRO and You Mr.Echicken. I've ran and hacked at just about every BBS package that's ever been developed. Today I'm just happy running one (Synchronet) that works. ;-)
ãHusTlerã havens.synchro.net:23ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.netã

Re: Re: Menushell.jsã By: Gamgee to HusTler on Mon Aug 24 2020 09:29 amãã > You don't need a menu editor to have custom menus. I know

virtually nothing about either JS or Baja, and pretty much every
Also, I have made some fairly minor changes to the default.src
menu shell file, and recompiled it with Baja. Extremely simple to
do (instructions on the Wiki), and no programming skill required.
It's just a text file and it's very obvious how to edit it for
minor changes.

Get out of the box and learn something.

There we go. Some good old Synchronet Support. Wow.. what a revelation. ãHusTlerã havens.synchro.net:23ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Mon Aug 24 2020 09:19 pmãã > I think the main appeal of Google's V8 engine was that it was supposed to beã > very fast. But for something that's embedded into the apps we were using, Iã > think Mozilla's JS engine was plenty fast. What benefit do you think thereã > would be to using Google's V8 JS engine over Mozilla's JS engine withã > Synchronet?ããI don't think the performance difference between V8 and SpiderMonkey is really significant these days. I'd only use V8 if it was easier/better for integrating into Synchronet. We'll see...ãã digital manããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #86:ãXOFF = Transmit Off (ASCII 19, Ctrl-S)ãNorco, CA WX: 76.1øF, 62.0% humidity, 3 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

On 8/24/2020 6:20 PM, Gamgee wrote:

Depending on the source ansi, I tend to favor a separate
(simpler) file for .asc/msg menu displays.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that.

A lot of ANSi files don't look very good to ascii users.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Aug 24 2020 08:09 pmããHeyãã DM> Ah, cool. I might take a look at v8 again, but I'm planning to update toã DM> the latest SpiderMonkey at some point, which is expected to be painful.ããSo I'm looking forward to seeing this happen. While I cant help you with the actual coding (C++ or is C? are not my forte), I'll certainly help with the testing :)ãã...ëîåïãã... Alas! The poor Tagline. I knew it well.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: echicken to HusTler on Mon Aug 24 2020 11:00 amãããã Hu>> I appreciate what you are saying Underminer. The coders want toã Hu>> argue which is better Baja or JS. Asãã ec> There's nothing to argue. Except for the learning curve, JS is better. Ifã ec> you find Baja easier to learn and can accomplish your goal within itsã ec> limitations, it's a viable option. That pretty much covers it.ãã Hu>> SysOp I would love to see a menu editor built in to Synchronet likeã Hu>> so many other BBS packages. But that's never going to happen.ãã ec> We're in a thread about how I wrote a menu editor, it used to work, now itã ec> doesn't, and we're discussing the merits of revisiting the idea. That'sã ec> hardly a "never going to happen" scenario. It happened before, it canã ec> happen again. ããããi dont really think a decent menu editor can be made.ããif he wants something where it shows him the lists of commands you can do and then assign a key and then it puts that into code and makes an ansi menu, i've done that like 11 years ago. ããi just think something like that is limiting and editing your own command shell really allows you to tweak what you want to do and stack commands.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: HusTler to echicken on Mon Aug 24 2020 09:13 pmãã Hu> Re: Menushell.jsã Hu> By: echicken to HusTler on Mon Aug 24 2020 11:00 amãã >> I can see that you're a hard-talkin' straight-shootin' old-schoolã >> sysop who likes to get shit done. If you have some thoughts aboutã >> features you'd like see in a menu editor, please share. ãã Hu> Nah. I can't compete with you guys. DM, Nightfox and MRO and Youã Hu> Mr.Echicken. I've ran and hacked at just about every BBS package that'sã Hu> ever been developed. Today I'm just happy running one (Synchronet) thatã Hu> works. ;-) ãããi switched to synchronet because of the stability. i come from the netmodem days. the bad one. ããif there's something you want to do with your bbs, i can probably show you how to do it easily. i'm very rusty but it comes back with some practice.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to echicken on Tue Aug 25 2020 06:59 pmãã MR> i dont really think a decent menu editor can be made.ãã MR> if he wants something where it shows him the lists of commands you can doã MR> and then assign a key and then it puts that into code and makes an ansiã MR> menu, i've done that like 11 years ago. ãã MR> i just think something like that is limiting and editing your own commandã MR> shell really allows you to tweak what you want to do and stack commands.ããI dunno, I think something at least covering the basics could be done. I used to use RemoteAccess, and I was able to do all I really needed with my menus using its menu editor. I guess I was still within its limitations. I'm sure Synchronet's command shells would still always let you do a lot more, but I think something at least covering the basics could be done. I could even see a Synchronet menu editor doing things like letting you configure certain things to be done based on ARS, etc..ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to echicken on Tue Aug 25 2020 18:59:09ãã MR> i dont really think a decent menu editor can be made.ããIt could be about as good as what Mystic and some other packages have. I find it limiting and a bit clunky, but some people prefer it.ãã MR> if he wants something where it shows him the lists of commands you can do and then assign a key andã MR> then it puts that into code and makes an ansi menu, i've done that like 11 years ago. ããMine was just a more flexible version of that, and covered most anything you would want to add to a menu on your BBS. It's broken now, but I might remake it at some point.ãã MR> i just think something like that is limiting and editing your own command shell really allows you toã MR> tweak what you want to do and stack commands.ããWriting / modifying a shell is far better, and I would advocate for that approach before I started making some menu editor do crazy things. A lot of sysops probably aren't taking any special advantage of Baja or JS, though, and the end result would be about the same.ãã---ãechickenãelectronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

On 8/24/2020 9:19 PM, Nightfox wrote:

Ah, cool. I might take a look at v8 again, but I'm planning to update to
the latest SpiderMonkey at some point, which is expected to be painful.

I think the main appeal of Google's V8 engine was that it was supposed to be very fast. But for something that's embedded into the apps we were using, I think Mozilla's JS engine was plenty fast. What benefit do you think there would be to using Google's V8 JS engine over Mozilla's JS engine with Synchronet?

Less of an issue for Synchronet, but a lot of devs and admins aren't a
fan of V8 because of it's complex build system. It's a major reason why PostgreSQL's plv8 is being dropped (lack of distro support) where
libmozjs is relatively widely supported. They also tend to break their
API a *LOT* which is why even Node is creating their own API abstraction
to make it easier to develop compiled modules against.

As to performance, Spidermonkey is mostly on par with V8 these days,
there may be a little back and forth though. For Synchronet there's
probably not much reason to switch. And there's too much code surface
to do a paradigm shift (such as using Node as the core).

Being able to use some of the more modern language features (and some
bits in-browser) would potentially be nice to have. Async functions in
the non-interactive areas/services could be nice as well.

Aside: been following Enigma development, but other than a simple setup
a couple times haven't really dug in.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

On 8/24/2020 9:58 PM, Digital Man wrote:

I don't think the performance difference between V8 and SpiderMonkey is really significant these days. I'd only use V8 if it was easier/better for integrating into Synchronet. We'll see...

From some experience, V8 would be significantly more difficult to
integrate and considerably more painful upgrade cycles.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

Re: Menushell.js
By: MRO to HusTler on Tue Aug 25 2020 07:04 pm

Nah. I can't compete with you guys. DM, Nightfox and MRO and You

i switched to synchronet because of the stability. i come from the netmodem days. the bad one.

if there's something you want to do with your bbs, i can probably show you h to do it easily. i'm very rusty but it comes back with some practice.

Thanks for the offer. I just wanted to convey my thoughts on a menu editor. I understand the "Syncronet Way" of doing things. It's a bit archaic but I can get by. When I paid for BBS package back in the day I looked for customization and support. I'm not going to see these things with free software. I can deal with that. I still think a menu editor would be nice to have for new SysOps.

HusTler
havens.synchro.net:23ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.netã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: HusTler to MRO on Thu Aug 27 2020 09:53:16ãã Hu> Thanks for the offer. I just wanted to convey my thoughts on a menu editor. I ã Hu> understand the "Syncronet Way" of doing things. It's a bit archaic but I can ã Hu> get by. When I paid for BBS package back in the day I looked for customization and support. I'm notããIt's funny how we all perceive these things differently. I feel like using a menu editor is, if not "archaic" ("oldschool", perhaps), a bit clunky and cumbersome. Meanwhile, to me, a scripted menuing system allows for far more "modern" features and is extremely flexible.ããJust wanted to put that out there; it's a matter of different paradigms rather than one concept being older than the other.ãã---ãechickenãelectronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: HusTler to MRO on Thu Aug 27 2020 09:53 amãã Hu> archaic but I can get by. When I paid for BBS package back in the day Iã Hu> looked for customization and support. I'm not going to see these thingsã Hu> with free software. I can deal with that. I still think a menu editorã Hu> would be nice to have for new SysOps. ãããa menu editor is so so so extremely limiting.ãi have all kinds of custom stuff in my menus. a menu editor couldnt accomplish that.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: echicken to HusTler on Thu Aug 27 2020 02:55 pmããã ec> Re: Menushell.jsã ec> By: HusTler to MRO on Thu Aug 27 2020 09:53:16ãã Hu>> Thanks for the offer. I just wanted to convey my thoughts on a menuã Hu>> editor. I ã Hu>> understand the "Syncronet Way" of doing things. It's a bit archaicã Hu>> but I can ã Hu>> get by. When I paid for BBS package back in the day I looked forã Hu>> customization and support. I'm notãã ec> It's funny how we all perceive these things differently. I feel like usingã ec> a menu editor is, if not "archaic" ("oldschool", perhaps), a bit clunkyã ec> and cumbersome. Meanwhile, to me, a scripted menuing system allows for farã ec> more "modern" features and is extremely flexible.ãã ec> Just wanted to put that out there; it's a matter of different paradiããwhen you are used to using bbs softwares with menu editors that's what youãexpect from synchronet. maybe we can have both some day. ããi totally understand how these guys feel because i ran renegade and iniquity and other bbs softwares before switching to synchronet.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to HusTler on Thu Aug 27 2020 17:35:07ããã > a menu editor is so so so extremely limiting.ã > i have all kinds of custom stuff in my menus. a menu editor couldntã > accomplish that.ããthat depends on the menu editor and the foresight of the developer...ããin my old RA setup, i had menu options that dropped you through other menu files that you never saw any output from but those menu files executed commands that would flip user flags and set security levels and drop you outãthe other side looking at another menu on screen... just because it is a menu file doesn't mean that it has to display one menu screen and handle the options for it...ããthe best part about it was the dynamic display generation... there might be three "write mail" options but you only see one because of the access permissions to the others... at some point, more than one of those may beãactive... instead of drawing a static screen with all three showing, the system would draw a screen with only those available to you on it...ããwe also had codes we could put in the screens we drew that could execute menu commands so while you are viewing this nice ansi being drawn, your security level is being updated and your access flags set... getting one's headãwrapped around it all was not easy but the finished product could be quite seamless...ããã)\/(arkãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTARã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to echicken on Thu Aug 27 2020 05:36 pmãã MR> when you are used to using bbs softwares with menu editors that's what youã MR> expect from synchronet. maybe we can have both some day. ãã MR> i totally understand how these guys feel because i ran renegade andã MR> iniquity and other bbs softwares before switching to synchronet.ããIt seems most BBS sysops are fine with making batch files/shell scripts to do various work for the BBS, but I'm not sure how many BBS sysops would feel about learning a more fully-fledged programming language to write a command shell. I suppose even Baja might seem intimidating to some new Synchronet sysops. Every so often, I've seen questions from new Synchronet sysops posted on Dove-Net asking how to change menu behavior etc., and some seem a little apprehensive or confused at first about Baja/JS command shells.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Rampage to MRO on Fri Aug 28 2020 08:56 amãã Ra> in my old RA setup, i had menu options that dropped you through other menuã Ra> files that you never saw any output from but those menu files executedã Ra> commands that would flip user flags and set security levels and drop youã Ra> out the other side looking at another menu on screen... just because it isã Ra> a menu file doesn't mean that it has to display one menu screen and handleã Ra> the options for it... ãã Ra> the best part about it was the dynamic display generation... there mightã Ra> be three "write mail" options but you only see one because of the accessã Ra> permissions to the others... at some point, more than one of those may beã Ra> active... instead of drawing a static screen with all three showing, theã Ra> system would draw a screen with only those available to you on it... ãã Ra> we also had codes we could put in the screens we drew that could executeã Ra> menu commands so while you are viewing this nice ansi being drawn, yourã Ra> security level is being updated and your access flags set... getting one'sã Ra> head wrapped around it all was not easy but the finished product could beã Ra> quite seamless... ããYep, I used to use RA, and you could do some cool stuff with it and its menuing system etc. once you wrapped your head around it.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

On 8/27/2020 6:53 AM, HusTler wrote:

Thanks for the offer. I just wanted to convey my thoughts on a menu
editor. I understand the "Syncronet Way" of doing things. It's a bit
archaic but I can get by. When I paid for BBS package back in the day
I looked for customization and support. I'm not going to see these
things with free software. I can deal with that. I still think a menu
editor would be nice to have for new SysOps.

I think that a few people have gone down the path of creating a menu
edited shell... the issue is, once someone understands things well
enough to create a menu editor, they no longer find the exercise
interesting as they can just edit their mods/shells directly.

I've started and dropped creating a UI for editing BIND files and every
time, I wind up just re-learning enough to make the changes I wanted to directly, then give up on creating a more friendly ui/cli interface.

It's really a mixed bag, especially with non-commercial software as
things like a menu editor, while they would be nice are largely
unneeded. It's a bit more difficult for a Sysop to just jump in and
make changes, but that said, it gets to be "easy enough" that working
around the problem becomes a non-issue.

There's also the desire for more interactive menus, lightbars, listboxes
etc. I looked at my listbox menu, and frankly the code is scary to me
now that 17 years or so has gone by. I'm not even quite sure if it
works right or well, I've been re-creating some of my mods.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

On 8/27/2020 11:55 AM, echicken wrote:

It's funny how we all perceive these things differently. I feel like using a menu editor is, if not "archaic" ("oldschool", perhaps), a bit clunky and cumbersome. Meanwhile, to me, a scripted menuing system allows for far more "modern" features and is extremely flexible.

Just wanted to put that out there; it's a matter of different paradigms rather than one concept being older than the other.

I'm largely of the same mindset... I don't think I'd have the patience
to go through what I used to have to do with Renegade... Really complex
menus to get lightbar from the user perspective combined with having to
hex edit the renegade.ovr file every single release for custom mods.

I love that with Synchronet you can pretty much work around or outright replace any built in functionality you like. The hardest part for me,
is I've spent about a decade now using Node style build tooling, modules
and npm; so dealing with Synchronet's load/require interfaces is a bit
alien in practice. That and not having the autocomplete/tooling that VS
Code gives you isn't very fun as well.

Ispy said he created some TypeScript definitions and build system for Synchronet and should probably look those up... It's yet another step
removed from edit/run that you currently get with Synchronet though.

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

---
þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20

Re: Re: Menushell.jsã By: Tracker1 to echicken on Fri Aug 28 2020 14:19:02ãã Tr> replace any built in functionality you like. The hardest part for me, ã Tr> is I've spent about a decade now using Node style build tooling, modules ã Tr> and npm; so dealing with Synchronet's load/require interfaces is a bit ã Tr> alien in practice. That and not having the autocomplete/tooling that VS ã Tr> Code gives you isn't very fun as well.ããMuch the same, where JS is concerned I do a lot of work with node (and lately React), so there's stuff from that space that I'm accustomed to (tooling, dependency management, import/require and so on).ããI've been working on Synchronet projects in parallel all along, so switching between the two mindsets is sort of second nature for me. Kind of a matter of not getting set in my JS ways. (This has also been helpful when I've had to write JS for other oddball environments, like in the Rhino engine embedded in some Java applications.)ããI'd like it if we had some form of versioned package (and dependency) management, and if the module import/export style were more along the lines of ES6 'import' or node.js require(). And of course there's ES6 stuff that I miss.ããOn the other hand, Synchronet JS is sort of "back to basics" in a fun way. Between ES5, stuff being mostly synchronous, the sort of wild west of the exec directory tree, concerns about keeping things backward compatible, etc., it can keep you on your toes and require some creative thinking.ãã---ãechickenãelectronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Aug 28 2020 12:35 pmãã Ni> do various work for the BBS, but I'm not sure how many BBS sysops wouldã Ni> feel about learning a more fully-fledged programming language to write aã Ni> command shell. I suppose even Baja might seem intimidating to some newã Ni> Synchronet sysops. Every so often, I've seen questions from new Synchronetã Ni> sysops posted on Dove-Net asking how to change menu behavior etc., andã Ni> some seem a little apprehensive or confused at first about Baja/JS commandã Ni> shells. ãã Ni> Nightfoxãããmost people that i've encountered that run mystic and other softwares say they dont touch synchronet because you have to be a programmer to run it.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2020 01:24 pmãã MR> most people that i've encountered that run mystic and other softwares sayã MR> they dont touch synchronet because you have to be a programmer to run it.ããThat's kinda what I suspected, and it's probably a good reason to have a menu editor, to at least cover the basics.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Menushell.jsã By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2020 01:24 pmãã MR> most people that i've encountered that run mystic and other softwares sayã MR> they dont touch synchronet because you have to be a programmer to run it.ããOr... a... wannabe programmer! Muahahaha.ããIt's fun as heck trying to figure this s__t out!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Flee the Planet BBS [flee.fsxnet.nz:2323]ã