What was your favourite distro in 2017 ? ãã Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?ããwill you miss unity ?ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11ãã > What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?ããAntergos would make that list for me this year. Based off of Arch Linux, but ãinstallers is scripted and saves me from making a lot of configuration ãmistakes.ãã > will you miss unity ?ããNo, I will not miss Unity. I hadn't used Unity since I changed over Arch Linuxãand Antergos years ago. XFCE for me...ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47 amãã En> What was your favourite distro in 2017 ? ãã En> Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?ããI suppose my favorite distro right now is Mint. I like its Cinnamon userãinterface. That and the OS overall seems fairly clean and works well.ãã En> will you miss unity ?ããMiss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I never really liked Unity.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: distroã By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11ãã En> What was your favourite distro in 2017 ? ãã En> Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?ããMint LMDE (Debian Version)ãã En> will you miss unity ?ããNo..ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 2017 11:20:58ãã En>> will you miss unity ?ãã Ni> Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I never really liked Unity.ããOh yeah. Cananocial <sp> is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too.. and M$ãhas something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either.. cameãstraight from a board meeting press release..ããThis is why I am slowly migrating away from ubuntu.. My linux Mint version isãbased off deb.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 2017 11:00 amãã > Re: distroã > By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11ãã > > What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?ãã > Antergos would make that list for me this year. Based off of Arch Linux, butã > installers is scripted and saves me from making a lot of configurationã > mistakes.ãã > > will you miss unity ?ãã > No, I will not miss Unity. I hadn't used Unity since I changed over Archã > Linux and Antergos years ago. XFCE for me...ããããi cant stand any linux gui, but i can tollerate xfceã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 06:04 pmãã Ni>> Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. Iã Ni>> never really liked Unity. ãã KK> Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too..ã KK> Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) and M$ ã KK> has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either..ã KK> came straight from a board meeting press release..ããI thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it would beãthere to make money.ããAnd I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but I didn'tãthink they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environments for Linux.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?ã> Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?ã> will you miss unity ?ããSame as every year, debian. :) I use icewm, so I won't miss unity.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "When you have a rib-eye steak, you must floss it!"-Homerã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 06:04 pmããOh yeah. Cananocial <sp>> is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too..ãOh yeah. Cananocial <sp>> and M$ ãKK> has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either..ãKK> came straight from a board meeting press release..ããI was never a fan. Although I like the idea of a window environment which usesãthe sides for status bars (since widescreen monitors have more space available)ããI still use Lubuntu - started with single-core Thinkpad laptops that needed aãlightweight WM, but still use it on dual core systems with 8 GB of RAM.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 15:49:17ãã KK>> Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) is trashing unity.. its all a money thingã KK>> too.. Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) and M$ ã KK>> has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theoryã KK>> either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..ãã Ni> I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it wouldã Ni> be there to make money.ããIt is'nt there to make money for the devels. microsoft stipulated they dropãunity so they can more easily embed their cloud platform int ubuntu.. youãcannot make this crap up.. and I swear this was straight from the ceos mouth.ãã Ni> And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but Iã Ni> didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environmentsã Ni> for Linux. ããubuntu is about to intergrate into (onedrive) or whatever their cloud servicesãis in the near future.ããat first I thought it was cool that you could have a native bash cli underãwindows 10 without an emulated environment. now to see what road the ceo isãtraveling i'm not liking it one bit..ããand i really don't see how this is even bordering on legal anymore.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 15:49:17ãã Ni> And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but Iã Ni> didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environmentsã Ni> for Linux. ããand truly I think its more about MS wanting to nudge them into having GNOMEãonly instead of giving choices of WM so when the cloud is implemented MS willãnot have to support so many envirnonments.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: poindexter FORTRAN to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 15:59:38ãã PF> I was never a fan. Although I like the idea of a window environment whichã PF> uses the sides for status bars (since widescreen monitors have more spaceã PF> available) ãã PF> I still use Lubuntu - started with single-core Thinkpad laptops thatã PF> needed a lightweight WM, but still use it on dual core systems with 8 GBã PF> of RAM. [0mããI like Lubuntu, and I'm dual booting XP and PUPPY on one of my older machines..ãwell theyre all old by todays standards, but this tower has a sticker on itãthat says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 more hdd in it and more RAM.. and itãis running beautifully... I'm about to stick my POTS server back up to get myãdial up back, and may run an rlogin server from it. or something..ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:02 pmãã Ni>> And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, butã Ni>> I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UIã Ni>> environments for Linux. ãã KK> and truly I think its more about MS wanting to nudge them into havingã KK> GNOME only instead of giving choices of WM so when the cloud isã KK> implemented MS will not have to support so many envirnonments.ããI could understand that though.. I suppose I'd have to read up on this more,ãbecause I'm surprised to hear about Microsoft's interest in Ubuntu, and I'mãwondering why that distribution specifically (maybe because it's one of theãmost popular, or the most popular)?ããI did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linuxãmore (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio and possiblyãsome other of their tools for Linux).ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:06 pmãã KK> I like Lubuntu, and I'm dual booting XP and PUPPY on one of my olderã KK> machines.. well theyre all old by todays standards, but this tower has aã KK> sticker on it that says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 more hdd in it andããI remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or a PCãbuilder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL" is oneãof those square ones though? I somewhat miss those case stickers.. It was aãway to sort of "brand" your PC or show your use of Intel/AMD CPU or Nvidia/ATIãgrpahics card, etc.. One time, I saw a seller on eBay selling some custom PCãcase stickers with the Intel or AMD logo (available with both) with "Fast AsãF*ck" written below the logo.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 22:24:38ãã Ni> I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supportingã Ni> Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio andã Ni> possibly some other of their tools for Linux).ããI'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can ofãcanonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully theãGNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententions?ãI know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still,ãbeing the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut downãtightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the longãrun. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not lookingãto far in the future.ããYou could tell something was wrong when Jane Silber resigned and Shuttleworthãtook back over control.ããI truly like to see more interoperability betweeen the two OS, but just only asãfar as it has gotten.. to help make Windows 10 a better developor platform, Iãrelly see no upside for the linux community at all.ããAnd now with the ditching of unity, and dropping support for flavors (exceptãgnome) one can can that MS has more say in what is being done that what isãbeing publicly told. shuttleworth did say it was mainly for cloud support thatãMS will be spearheading.. and I won't be having none of it.. I'll keep thisãverion (Debian version) of Mint and go with it.. or go back to Debian, orãFreeBSD for what that matters.. at least they did'nt cave to Apple, apple justãstole their stuff..ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 22:52:39ãã KK>> machines.. well theyre all old by todays standards, but this towerã KK>> has a sticker on it that says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 moreã KK>> hdd in it and ãã Ni> I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or aã Ni> PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL"ã Ni> is one of those square ones though? I somewhat miss those case stickers..ã Ni> It was a way to sort of "brand" your PC or show your use of Intel/AMD CPUã Ni> or Nvidia/ATI grpahics card, etc.. One time, I saw a seller on eBayã Ni> selling some custom PC case stickers with the Intel or AMD logo (availableã Ni> with both) with "Fast As F*ck" written below the logo.ããlol, it's actually an oval indentation on the case where the sticker has beenãplaced. trutfully, I've seen my share of dell optiplex and other dell modelsãover the year, and I could just about bet this was built by dell or whoeverãbuilt dells computers at the time and just slapped a generic brand on it...ãit's been a damn good computer, and I believe the lightening strike helped toãmake it "fast as f*ck" :-) for what it is.. I have an old gaming computer I'mãstill stripping out that had the magic smoke released somewhere on it too, soãI'm pretty much building a franken computer :)ããI want to get it good enouhg to put Miint or Debian on it without any lag (withãa BBS running) because with my current setup my BBS runs of a dell laptop, Iãkeep a secondary monitor plugged in and the display shut off on the laptp, andãalso have a cooling fan under it. i'ts been running close to a year like thisãwithout getting the least bit got.. every once in a while you'll hear theãthermostat kick teh CPU fan on.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18:06ãã > Ni> I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supportingã > Ni> Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio ã > Ni> possibly some other of their tools for Linux).ã > ã > I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can ofã > canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully tã > GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententioã > I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still,ã > being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut downã > tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the longã > run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not lookiã > to far in the future.ããThere is a partnership between Microsoft and Canonical, Ltd. I do see Microsoftãmuddeling platforms with .NET Core, PowerShell Core, SQL Server 2017, and WSLã(the ability to run ELF binaries on Windows). I'm not sure of their intentions,ãbut if it is to shut down Linux or open source, it'll be a daring and stupidãmove. Especially when .NET Core, PowerShell Core, ASP.NET Core,ãEntityFramework, MSBuild, Roslyn, and et al, are open source as well.ããSeriously, Microsoft has a lot repositories on GitHub, and non-Microsoftãemployees are contributing to these repositories.ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ã/ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18:06ãã > Ni> I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supportingã > Ni> Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio ã > Ni> possibly some other of their tools for Linux).ã > ã > I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can ofã > canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully tã > GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententioã > I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still,ã > being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut downã > tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the longã > run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not lookiã > to far in the future.ããThinking about this further, and I wonder if it is really this case (from anãarticle that had heard rumors of making Windows open source) is really true:ãMicrosoft makes more money from Azure (their cloud offering) than Windows. Ifãthat is the case, it could make sense why they muddeling the platforms allãtogether.ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 09:37:12ãã Ja> There is a partnership between Microsoft and Canonical, Ltd. I do seeã Ja> Microsoft muddeling platforms with .NET Core, PowerShell Core, SQL Serverã Ja> 2017, and WSL (the ability to run ELF binaries on Windows). I'm not sureã Ja> of their intentions, but if it is to shut down Linux or open source, it'llã Ja> be a daring and stupid move. Especially when .NET Core, PowerShell Core,ã Ja> ASP.NET Core, EntityFramework, MSBuild, Roslyn, and et al, are open sourceã Ja> as well. ãã Ja> Seriously, Microsoft has a lot repositories on GitHub, and non-Microsoftã Ja> employees are contributing to these repositories.ããI'm hoping the former too.. I'm really hoping there are developers in MS thatãsee that linux WILL soon if not already surpass them for serverside andãproductivity.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 11:21:26ãã Ja> Thinking about this further, and I wonder if it is really this case (fromã Ja> an article that had heard rumors of making Windows open source) is reallyã Ja> true: Microsoft makes more money from Azure (their cloud offering) thanã Ja> Windows. If that is the case, it could make sense why they muddeling theã Ja> platforms all together.ããand truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unless Iãhave purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. every otherãdistro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 16:31:10ãã KK> and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unlessã KK> I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. everyã KK> other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEMã KK> code for it. ããand thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of theãmachine.. it's what make it work... now if someone want to stick a 5 dollarãadd-on to it to enhance something, more power to them.. I don't really want toãsee that mainstream under linux, but whos to say linux devels should'nt get aãlittle compensation for all the hard work they put into their products to..ãprducts like SBBS. and truthfully this is where i See win 10 going.. free OS,ãwith addons for feature enhancments. Kinda like the andriod app store. I wasãhappy to pay 5 bucks for ISSTracker to use on all my android and linux devicesãso I can track the ISS and amateur satellites.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 04:31 pmãã KK> and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unlessã KK> I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. everyã KK> other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEMã KK> code for it. ããAre you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their siteãwith free valid license keys?ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 04:36 pmãã KK> and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of theã KK> machine.. it's what make it work...ããI'm not sure the OS should always be free.. An OS is a piece of software, aãproduct that someone (or a team of people) has put time and effort intoãdeveloping, like any other product. Microsoft historically has been a softwareãcompany, and if they choose to sell their software for a profit (includingãtheir OS), I don't see a problem with that. You don't have to pay anãoutrageous price for Windows either - You can find OEM copies to buy online forãaround $70 to $120 or so. Only in the past few years has Microsoft started toãmake their own computers.ããApple no longer charges for OS X, but Apple's main source of revenue is theirãhardware (computers, iPhone, and iPod). I remember even reading a quote whereãsomeone at Apple said they want to be mainly a hardware company. They restrictãOS X to install on Macs, so they sell their Macs and include the OS for free. ãI remember when they used to sell their OS though.. Back in the day, a newãmajor version of OS X would cost around $150 (I think), which was about on parãwith an OEM copy of Windows.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:52 pmããNi> I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or aãNi> PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL"ãNi> is one of those square ones though?ããI had an old IBM 5150 sticker on one of my clone cases. The 5150 was the PC XT,ãI believe.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45ãã Ni> Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from theirã Ni> site with free valid license keys?ããnot quite..ããIve always been able to download an ISO of whatever OS I need, and the key isãon my computer.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18 amãã Ni>> I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they startedã Ni>> supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version ofã Ni>> Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).ããMS contributed $500,000 to Linux last I heard, MS is interested in Linux Cloudãand Server, I doubt they will ever want anything to do with Linux as a desktop.ã I am an Ubuntu guy and use it to run my VPS game servers and also my RaspberryãPI game console that runs many emulators.ãã"... Experience: a name everyone gives to his/her mistakes."ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com Telnet - outwestbbs.com:23ã

Re: distroã By: Denn to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 22:10:34ãã De> MS contributed $500,000 to Linux last I heard, MS is interested in Linuxã De> Cloud and Server, I doubt they will ever want anything to do with Linux asã De> a desktop. ããAs long as it stays at that, I'm happy.. I'm not using ubuntu at the moment,ãbut that still do'nt mean I do'nt enjoy it. I always like the KDE desktopãthough, if I'm going to do X. I'm trying to work on shying away fron Xãaltogether. it's cool that ms hooked the open source community up with someãmoney. bt I just cannot see them doing this wihtout some alterior motive.. ããeven the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation saves them so much money every year,ãthat it is just stupid for them to not donate for the right offs.ãããI believe everythin wth Bill is cold, calculated, and to the point. and Iãwould'nt know what it would look like, but the evolution of personal computingãwoul'nt be what it is today without MS.ããI just hope this MS/Linux marraige does'nt go to far because shuttleworth hadã500,000 shuffled in front of him. the devel versions of windows 10 was greatãat first with a nice cool native, then every update yo culd feel it get moreãand more bulkly, slower, and buggy. ããI hope the same does'nt go for Ubuntu, I hope no amount of code whatsoweverãfrom MS makes its way into any ubuntu distro.ããand if they end up dropping the flavors like lubuntu, mate, kubuntu, etc.. soãthey will only have the origina ubuntu to keep up with azure, you'll never seeãme go back to ubuntuland. right now I'm happy as hell with the Debian versionãof Mint.ãã--ããTim Smith (KK4QBN)ãKK4QBN BBSãã---ã * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USAã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45ãã > KK> and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unlã > KK> I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. eveã > KK> other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEMã > KK> code for it.ã > ã > Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their siã > with free valid license keys?ããRemember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one toãupgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:12:41ãã > KK> and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of theã > KK> machine.. it's what make it work...ã > ã > I'm not sure the OS should always be free.. An OS is a piece of software, aã > product that someone (or a team of people) has put time and effort intoã > developing, like any other product. Microsoft historically has been a softwã > company, and if they choose to sell their software for a profit (includingã > their OS), I don't see a problem with that. You don't have to pay anã > outrageous price for Windows either - You can find OEM copies to buy online ã > around $70 to $120 or so. Only in the past few years has Microsoft started ã > make their own computers.ããI agree with Nightfox on this point: OSes shouldn't always be free. If thereãare developers who are good at what they do, they should be paid for it. Closedãor open source alike.ããHowever, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or openãsource software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run theãGNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated toãimprovimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, andãI hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stableãand really take off.ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it wouldã > be there to make money.ããUnity was also to be that thing that would work on phone, tablet etc. Neverãhappened.ããMyself I was fine with Unity it worked. Wasn't dramatically different to wowãme, gnome feel like a step back.ããLet's bring LCARSãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

I could understand that though.. I suppose I'd have to read up on thisã > more, because I'm surprised to hear about Microsoft's interest in Ubuntu,ã > and I'm wondering why that distribution specifically (maybe because it'sã > one of the most popular, or the most popular)?ã > ã > I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supportingã > Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio andã > possibly some other of their tools for Linux).ããOne thing is sure, is that Microsoft is a contributor to the Linux kernel.ãIt's been happening for quite a while now.ããLast year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not anãemulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future ofãPowerShell. ããAlso MS SQL is now available on Linux too. ããI guess linux being less resource intensive live better on the cloud,ãMicrosoft being more and more focusing on Azure it probably makes sense.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Apple no longer charges for OS X, but Apple's main source of revenue isã > their hardware (computers, iPhone, and iPod). I remember even reading aã > quote where someone at Apple said they want to be mainly a hardwareã > company. They restrict OS X to install on Macs, so they sell their Macsã > and include the OS for free. I remember when they used to sell their OSã > though.. Back in the day, a new major version of OS X would cost aroundã > $150 (I think), which was about on par with an OEM copy of Windows.ããI think they also limits MacOS (new name :-D ) to theirs hardware because itãprevent them to have to support an indefinite amount of GPUs and othersãhardware variation.ããModern macs rely intensively on the graphic card.ããMarketing wise like you said, they are an hardware makers, so if they find anãincentive for you to buy theirs hardware they wont give that advantage toãothers.ããA lot of people would jump ship if the OS was available to others platform.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or openã > source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help runã > the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicatedã > to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I loveã > FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point ofã > being stable and really take off.ããWell the weird things with open source is that a lot of corporation contributeãto it. Still it's open source and free for the others to use and improve onãit. ããSafari and chrome ( midori too ) are powered by Webkit which is open sourceãyet created by Apple then open sourced. Like the Swift language.ããAnother big example is Hadoop, being developed by Yahoo it had been given toãApache. Now companies strive on this (cloudera, horton) and in return alsoãcontribute back to the code.ããAs long as they respect the GNU or Apache licence I have no problem withãcorporations to contribute to the open source world. It's the least they canãdo.ããIt's more sad when we see the reverse with what happened to mysql.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: KK4QBN to Denn on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:29 amããKK> and if they end up dropping the flavors like lubuntu, mate, kubuntu, etc..ãKK> so they will only have the origina ubuntu to keep up with azure, you'llãKK> never see me go back to ubuntuland. right now I'm happy as hell with theãKK> Debian version of Mint.ããThe nice thing about Debian is that it's the basis for so many other distros.ãYou could go from distro to distro and have the guts be the same.ããGet rid of Lubuntu? Roll your own LXDE and lightweight apps.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: Re: distroã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 amããEn> Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not anãEn> emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future ofãEn> PowerShell. ããPowershell seems to be more of an adjunct to the OS and AD than a generalãpurpose programming language.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 amãã > Re: distroã > By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45ãã > > KK> and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows,ã > > KK> unl I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay forã > > KK> it. eve other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had aã > > KK> VALID MS OEM code for it.ãã > > Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from theirã > > si with free valid license keys?ãã > Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every oneã > to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?ãããi dont remember 'requiring' it. but i remember there were free upgrades for aãperiod. i tried the free upgrade and it failed with some obscure error code, soãthat computer didnt get it.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: distroã By: MRO to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:06:13ãã > > Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every onã > > to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?ã > ã > i dont remember 'requiring' it. but i remember there were free upgrades for ã > period. i tried the free upgrade and it failed with some obscure error code,ã > that computer didnt get it.ããWhat would be a better choice of word to where Microsoft attempted to block allãefforts from users getting rid of the "Upgrade to Windows 10" pop-up ads?ããForcing, strong-arming, pushing, craming it down our throughts?ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 amãã > Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not anã > emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future ofã > PowerShell.ããYou know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc.ãSo the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windowsãprograms. The irony.ãã digital manããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #20:ãFDSZ = FOSSIL DSZ (by Chuck Forsberg)ãNorco, CA WX: 55.2øF, 17.0% humidity, 11 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 amãã >> Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download fromã >> their si with free valid license keys?ãã Ja> Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every oneã Ja> to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?ããYes, I remember that.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:59 amãã Ja> I agree with Nightfox on this point: OSes shouldn't always be free. Ifã Ja> there are developers who are good at what they do, they should be paid forã Ja> it. Closed or open source alike.ãã Ja> However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or openã Ja> source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help runã Ja> the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicatedã Ja> to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I loveã Ja> FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the pointã Ja> of being stable and really take off.ããI agree there too.ãAnd I've been checking into ReactOS for the past 10 years or so, and in allãthat time, it's still in an 'alpha' state. I hope it will eventually reach aãstate where it's feature-complete and mature enough to run as an everyday OS. ãI'm a bit skeptical though, because they're basically reverse-engineeringãWindows, and some Windows programming APIs are undocumented. Microsoft (ofãcourse) knows how to use those APIs, but it might be difficult for the ReactOSãdevelopers to ensure it's 100% compatible with Windows.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:26 amãã >> I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think itã >> would be there to make money.ãã En> Unity was also to be that thing that would work on phone, tablet etc.ã En> Never happened.ãã En> Myself I was fine with Unity it worked. Wasn't dramatically different toã En> wow me, gnome feel like a step back.ããTrying to be a mobile-like environment is what I didn't like about Unity. Iãactually like the classic Gnome-style interface on a desktop PC. I think itãworks well for a PC.ããI'm curious what you liked about Unity that seemed like a step forward fromãGnome?ãã En> Let's bring LCARSããyes.. I've actually seen some UI skins that look like LCARS..ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 amãã En> One thing is sure, is that Microsoft is a contributor to the Linux kernel.ã En> It's been happening for quite a while now.ããI'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying to doãby contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turnãLinux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux asãan open-source OS.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: MacOSã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:40 amãã En> I think they also limits MacOS (new name :-D ) to theirs hardware becauseã En> it prevent them to have to support an indefinite amount of GPUs and othersã En> hardware variation.ãã En> Modern macs rely intensively on the graphic card.ãã En> Marketing wise like you said, they are an hardware makers, so if they findã En> an incentive for you to buy theirs hardware they wont give that advantageã En> to others.ãã En> A lot of people would jump ship if the OS was available to othersã En> platform. ããThere is the "hackintosh" community who have been hacking OS X/MacOS to installãon non-Mac PCs. It works if you follow their guides and buy compatibleãhardware to build a PC. I can understand Apple's strategy of not wanting toãsupport tons of hardware, but I also wouldn't mind seeing more of anãalternative in the PC OS market. There used to be more OS alternatives back inãthe day, when OS/2 was around and there were others coming up such as BeOS. ãIf Apple allowed MacOS to be installed on other PCs, I wonder how much revenueãthey'd lose from hardware sales and how much revenue they could get fromãselling MacOS by itself.ããAlso, the OS maker is typically not the one developing drivers for all theãhardware out there. Hardware makers have the responsibility of developing theãdriver for their hardware. And not all drivers even need to be included withãthe OS - Just drivers that might be needed to install the OS on certainãmachines. With Windows, Microsoft has a driver certification process, and it'sãthe responsibility of the driver developer to run Microsoft's certificationãtests on it, and they'll then submit their driver to Microsoft once all theãrequired certification tests pass.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includesã > gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compileã > Windows programs. The irony.ããWOWãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

I'm curious what you liked about Unity that seemed like a step forward fromã > Gnome?ããMaybe it's just impression, but recent graphic card (NVIDIA GeForce GT 755Mãgraphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory) it was very snappy with a lot ofãeffect. Yes it was candy and i'm sorry for it :-) i'm the sucker that likeãnice transparency effect and animation. The artwork was a bit better. But it'sãjust a questions of skins i agree. I guess i'm lazy i don't have to tweakãubuntu 16.04 too much to get a nice shinny look.ããThen again it's just my impression, i haven't spent too much time. Because inãthe end the time I spend on Linux is mostly trough an terminal screen on bashãanyway. so it usually just an ssh or putty on a pc.ããBut when i crank a gui I did find unity pleasing. on lower spec machine likeãmy old netbook with an atom processor is lubunthu, maybe I'll put kali on itãanyway because i usually use this machine just to check my network and peopleãwill freak when they see the default desktop image.ããon my old ibm netvista ( that use to be my bbs ) i rock puppy Linux becauseãeven lubuntu is too much for it.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is tryingã > to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if theyã > want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want toã > contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.ã ãwould be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and on git,ãeverybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go unnoticed forãtoo long.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

ã > There is the "hackintosh" community who have been hacking OS X/MacOS toã > install on non-Mac PCs. It works if you follow their guides and buyã > compatible hardware to build a PC. I can understand Apple's strategy ofã > not wanting to support tons of hardware, but I also wouldn't mind seeingã > more of an alternative in the PC OS market. There used to be more OSã > alternatives back in the day, when OS/2 was around and there were othersã > coming up such as BeOS. If Apple allowed MacOS to be installed on otherã > PCs, I wonder how much revenue they'd lose from hardware sales and how muchã > revenue they could get from selling MacOS by itself.ã ãActually with the way things are shaping with Apple, putting more and moreãresource on iOS and even marketing more and more the iPad as a computerãsubstitute. MacOS feel more the devellopement environement to produce iOSãapps.ããMaybe sooner than later they'll ditch macOS all together and then open sourceãit to the community like its kernel Darwin already is, they already gave it toãthe community a few years ago. yet if you check an iphone kernel or mac you'llãread something like : Darwin 17.3.0ããWhen they'll be no money to be made with the mac platform you see it.ããMight be soon, microsoft is making an serious ARM version of windows. In theãpast mac where based on 68K, PowerPC then intel. I'm just not sure they'llãport macos, they'll probably just leave it behind and adapting iOS even moreãto act like a mac.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: Jagossel to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 02:25 pmããã > What would be a better choice of word to where Microsoft attempted to blockã > all efforts from users getting rid of the "Upgrade to Windows 10" pop-upã > ads?ãã > Forcing, strong-arming, pushing, craming it down our throughts?ãããi never got raped in the ass by it. did you experience what you are talkingãabout?ããall i got was a little flag icon. now it's gone.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: distroã By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:48 amãã > And I've been checking into ReactOS for the past 10 years or so, and in allã > that time, it's still in an 'alpha' state. I hope it will eventually reachã > a state where it's feature-complete and mature enough to run as an everydayã > OS. I'm a bit skeptical though, because they're basicallyã > reverse-engineering Windows, and some Windows programming APIs areã > undocumented. Microsoft (of course) knows how to use those APIs, but itã > might be difficult for the ReactOS developers to ensure it's 100% compatibleã > with Windows.ãããit's been like that since it came out. it's not going anywhere in terms ofãdevelopment.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:52 amãã > I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying toã > do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they wantã > to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contributeã > to Linux as an open-source OS.ããããyou should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are theãguys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:25 pmãã > would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and on git,ã > everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go unnoticed forã > too long.ããããHEARTBLEEDã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

@VIA: VERTãEN>@MSGID: <5A39347F.1547.dove-unix@mtlgeek.synchro.net>ãEN>What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?ããEN> Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?ããSlackware.ããEN>will you miss unity ?ããIs that the "desktop manager/theme" part of Ubuntu? If so, I've seen itãbut wasn't impressed. I use XFCE on Slackware.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he declared his horse a Senator.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

Re: Re: MacOSã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:36 pmãã En> Maybe sooner than later they'll ditch macOS all together and then openããDo you mean "sooner OR later"? Not sure "sooner than later" makes sense. Whenãexactly would "sooner than later" be? ;)ãã En> source it to the community like its kernel Darwin already is, they alreadyã En> gave it to the community a few years ago. yet if you check an iphoneã En> kernel or mac you'll read something like : Darwin 17.3.0ããLong ago (1980s), Apple once tried to claim that they held a copyright onãthings like overlapping windows and other parts of a GUI (even after they gotãthe rights from Xerox), and Microsoft fought them in court on that. It wouldãbe funny if Apple ended up open-sourcing their GUI after all these years. Iãthink it would be interesting too, since Apple tends to use a lot ofãObjective-C. I don't think Objective-C is owned by Apple, but it seems Appleãand Apple products are some of the only software products by far that useãObjective-C.ãã En> Might be soon, microsoft is making an serious ARM version of windows.ããI heard about Microsoft doing that. I heard it will only be for the 32-bitãversion of Windows 10 though, so you won't be able to run 64-bit software onãit. A lot of software is still made in a 32-bit version though. I wonder whatãthat would mean for the PC market.. Intel is a fairly well-known name,ãalthough as far as mobile devices, I don't know if many people even knowãwho/what ARM is and that their mobile device has an ARM processor.ãã En> Inã En> the past mac where based on 68K, PowerPC then intel. I'm just not sureã En> they'll port macos, they'll probably just leave it behind and adapting iOSã En> even more to act like a mac.ããI hope that's not the case.. I think OS X is a fairly decent desktop OS, andãthere's a reason why MacOS and iOS look and behave differently - They'reãdesigned for different types of devices. MacOS does have the "Launchpad"ãthough, which looks sort of like iOS.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:44 pmãã >> I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft isã >> trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time willã >> tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they reallyã >> just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.ãã MR> you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. thoseã MR> are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.ããAre you wearing a tin foil hat, by chance?ãOne time I had a job interview and the interviewer asked what I thought aboutãLinux. He told me he had more trust in Windows, because there's a smallãdedicated team of people who are paid to develop Windows, and he trusted thatãthey'd make a good product. I guess there's some sense to that, but he alsoãsaid that since Linux is free and open-source, he thought anyone could go andãput malware in Linux. I hightly doubt that's the case.. My understanding isãthat there's a review process, and bad stuff would be caught fairly soon. Iãthink the fact that Linux is open-source is one of its strengths - There areãmany developers contributing to it, probably far more than the number of peopleãat any one company. Security holes seem to be fixed fairly quickly (I rememberãthe 'Heartbleed' bug that was reported a couple years ago, and it was fixedãfairly quick).ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Digital Man to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:53 amãã DM> You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includesã DM> gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compileã DM> Windows programs. The irony.ããlol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-lineãapplication? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64ãapplication.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:46 pmãã >> would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" andã >> on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't goã >> unnoticed for too long.ãã MR> HEARTBLEEDããHeartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library, which isãavailable for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something that someone "snuckãin" as he was saying, it was a bug that went undiscovered for some time.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:47 pmãã > MR> you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. thoseã > MR> are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all atã > MR> risk.ãã > Are you wearing a tin foil hat, by chance?ããlooks like SOMEONE DOESNT PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS.ãã > One time I had a job interview and the interviewer asked what I thoughtã > about Linux. He told me he had more trust in Windows, because there's aã > small dedicated team of people who are paid to develop Windows, and heã > trusted that they'd make a good product. I guess there's some sense toã > that, but he also said that since Linux is free and open-source, he thoughtã > anyone could go and put malware in Linux. I hightly doubt that's the case..ã > My understanding is that there's a review process, and bad stuff would beã > caught fairly soon. I think the fact that Linux is open-source is one ofã > its strengths - There are many developers contributing to it, probably farã > more than the number of people at any one company. Security holes seem toã > be fixed fairly quickly (I remember the 'Heartbleed' bug that was reported aã > couple years ago, and it was fixed fairly quick).ãããSo, heartbleed was fixed fairly quickly, eh? it can only be fixed if someoneãfinds it. this one careless guy created a huge security issue that went on forãmore than 2 years.ããopen source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as yourãweakest link and open source software can have random unqualifiedã'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:52 pmãã > Re: Re: distroã > By: MRO to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:46 pmãã > >> would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" andã > >> on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't goã > >> unnoticed for too long.ãã > MR> HEARTBLEEDãã > Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library, whichã > is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something that someoneã > "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went undiscovered for someã > time.ããwe were talking about open sourced software and how gee golly wonderful it is.ããhow do you know he didnt sneak it in?ãyou dont know him.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pmãã MR> open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong asã MR> your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualifiedã MR> 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.ããAs has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so thatãany random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:25 pmãã >> Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library,ã >> which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't somethingã >> that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that wentã >> undiscovered for some time.ãã MR> we were talking about open sourced software and how gee golly wonderful itã MR> is. ãã MR> how do you know he didnt sneak it in?ã MR> you dont know him.ããHow do you know he did? You don't know him.ãSoftware bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pmãã MR> So, heartbleed was fixed fairly quickly, eh? it can only be fixed ifã MR> someone finds it. this one careless guy created a huge security issue thatã MR> went on for more than 2 years.ããIt was fixed fairly quickly once it was discovered, yes. From what I heard,ãHeartbleed had exited for a while but was not discovered in that time. Ifãnobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And Iãsaw there was a fix fairly soon after it was discovered.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:58 pmãã > Re: Re: distroã > By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pmãã > MR> open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strongã > MR> as your weakest link and open source software can have randomã > MR> unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.ãã > As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process soã > that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ããããheartbleed. 2 years.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:59 pmãã > MR> how do you know he didnt sneak it in?ã > MR> you dont know him.ãã > How do you know he did? You don't know him.ããnobody knows him. so you cant say.ã > Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.ããwhy would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put inãthere?ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:04 pmãã > It was fixed fairly quickly once it was discovered, yes. From what I heard,ããoh boy, good for us. it was ONLY 2 years.ãã > Heartbleed had exited for a while but was not discovered in that time. Ifããi'm sure it was discovered.ãã > nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. Andããhahahaãã > nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. Andã > I saw there was a fix fairly soon after it was discovered.ãããyou are wayyyy too fucking trusting.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:51 pmãã > Re: Re: distroã > By: Digital Man to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:53 amã >ã > DM> You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? Itã > DM> includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannotã > DM> compile Windows programs. The irony.ã >ã > lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-lineã > application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64ã > application.ããYes, you can compile a command-line/console application (with the gcc includedãin the Ubuntu/bash package for Windows 10), but No, it does not generate aãWin32/Win64 application.ããHere an example 'file' output from a file built with gcc:ããa.out: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked,ãinterpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32,ãBuildID[sha1]=cc265875d07ab2d80e5c0a5c7543eca87a215d5d, not strippedããAnd here's one built on the same system using a Windows tool-chain (targetingãWin32/GUI):ããa.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386, for MS WindowsããAnd targeting Win32/console:ããa.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS WindowsããSo it really is a complete Linux environment inside Windows, not just anotherãcommand shell.ãã digital manããSynchronet "Real Fact" #32:ãThe second most prolific contributor to Synchronet is Stephen Hurd (Deuce).ãNorco, CA WX: 52.3øF, 18.0% humidity, 0 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

ã > I hope that's not the case.. I think OS X is a fairly decent desktop OS,ã > and there's a reason why MacOS and iOS look and behave differently -ã > They're designed for different types of devices. MacOS does have theã > "Launchpad" though, which looks sort of like iOS.ã ãIt's weird that we are talking about that, but yesterday Apple announced thatãthey'll will make possible for develloper to publish version of theirs appsãthat will run both on macOS and iOS, you'll have to take into account that itãwill have to be both mouse driven and touch based.ããI find it weird because one is intel based and the other arm. Would be stupidãif they would do like back in the day with universal apps where you had in theãpackage but intel and powerpc code bundled in the same binary. ããI guess well see.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: distroã By: Gamgee to ENNEV on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:18 pmããGa> Is that the "desktop manager/theme" part of Ubuntu? If so, I've seen itãGa> but wasn't impressed. I use XFCE on Slackware.ããI'm tempted to go back to some old school manager like fvwm now. Who needs eyeãcandy?ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:40 amãã >> Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.ãã MR> why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put inã MR> there?ããNow you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it in.. I justãdon't see why that would be very likely.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:17 amãã >> lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-lineã >> application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64ã >> application.ãã DM> Yes, you can compile a command-line/console application (with the gccã DM> included in the Ubuntu/bash package for Windows 10), but No, it does notã DM> generate a Win32/Win64 application.ãã DM> Here an example 'file' output from a file built with gcc:ãã DM> a.out: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamicallyã DM> linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32,ã DM> BuildID[sha1]=cc265875d07ab2d80e5c0a5c7543eca87a215d5d, not strippedãã DM> And here's one built on the same system using a Windows tool-chainã DM> (targeting Win32/GUI):ãã DM> a.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386, for MS Windowsãã DM> And targeting Win32/console:ãã DM> a.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windowsãã DM> So it really is a complete Linux environment inside Windows, not justã DM> another command shell.ããI see.. Interesting that Microsoft is including such an environment and thoseãtools in Windows.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: MacOSã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 09:35 amãã En> It's weird that we are talking about that, but yesterday Apple announcedã En> that they'll will make possible for develloper to publish version ofã En> theirs apps that will run both on macOS and iOS, you'll have to take intoã En> account that it will have to be both mouse driven and touch based.ããInteresting.. Seems like that could make an app more complicated since you'dãhave to support both styles of input. It might not be as complicated as itãseems though - A mouse pointer could just be one touch point.ãã En> I find it weird because one is intel based and the other arm. Would beã En> stupid if they would do like back in the day with universal apps where youã En> had in the package but intel and powerpc code bundled in the same binary. ããYeah, I wonder how they'll end up doing that. Microsoft had a type ofã"universal" app starting with Windows 8 that could run on a desktop PC or ARMãtablet (running the now defunct Windows RT), and I think the Windows Universalãapps could be written in JavaScript, which wouldn't need different binaries forãdifferent processors.ããI find it interesting that they feel the need to do this in the first place. Iãsuppose it makes sense from a business perspective if a lot of consumers theseãdays are using mobile devices. But when I'm working on a document, piece of ãcode, etc., or even playing a game, I still feel most productive when I'm usingãa physical keyboard and mouse. I took a touch typing class when I was in 8thãgrade, and my typing speed just went up after that. A virtual keyboard on aãmobile device just doesn't compare.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as yourã>weakest link and open source software can have random unqualifiedã>'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.ããSo can commercial products.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ ???ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

@VIA: VERTãNI>@MSGID: <5A3CAD20.3075.dove_dove-nix@digitaldistortionbbs.com>ãNI>@REPLY: <5A3C88F8.911.dove-nix@bbses.info>ãNI> Re: Re: distroãNI> By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pmããNI> MR> open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strongãNI> MR> your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualifiedãNI> MR> 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.ããUmmmmm..... no.ããNI>As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so thãNI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ããAbsolutely.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he dropped another white rhino.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 22 2017 11:40 amãã > Re: Re: distroã > By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:40 amãã > >> Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.ãã > MR> why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to putã > MR> in there?ãã > Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it in.. Iã > just don't see why that would be very likely.ãããyou dont understand how this 'bug' was advantagious?ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Dec 22 2017 06:15 pmãã > >open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong asã > yourã > >weakest link and open source software can have random unqualifiedã > >'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.ãã > So can commercial products.ãããthere's a higher likelyhood in open source.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:39 amãã >> As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review processã >> so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ãã MR> heartbleed. 2 years.ãã You don't know what you're talking about.ãã 1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is aãcryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux,ãMacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. Iãthink there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.ãã2. Heartbleed was a mistake, an actual bug in a way a thing was implemented.ãNot malicious code. The fix was to implement the thing a different way.ãã3. Heartbleed was fixed the same day the bug was publicly disclosed.ã CVE-2014-0160. It was fixed by two developers that currently work at Google. ããDaiTenguãã... Living with a saint is more gruelling than being one.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.comã

I find it interesting that they feel the need to do this in the firstã > place. I suppose it makes sense from a business perspective if a lot ofã > consumers these days are using mobile devices. But when I'm working on aã > document, piece of code, etc., or even playing a game, I still feel mostã > productive when I'm using a physical keyboard and mouse. I took a touchã > typing class when I was in 8th grade, and my typing speed just went upã > after that. A virtual keyboard on a mobile device just doesn't compare.ããYes the virtual keyboard should be a thing for short typing only. When Iãreally need to type on the go I get the iPad out i got a good keyboard for itãcalled TYPO the key are bigger than most laptop, and it come with a case thatãmake it piratically look like a laptop. With apps like Coda with solid codeãeditor and perfect SSH support i'm actually able to work from this machine andãwith remote desktop and can do most of the rest. i really don't need a laptopãprefer to have a beefier desktop and actually connect to it and my vmãenvironment than carry the processing power with me. It's way lighter and canãcarry it everywhere without too much weight. For me it's a good balance.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

So can commercial products.ããBut commercial product have less 'eyes' on the code so it's easier to keepãbugs around, with a smaller staff you can't tackle everything all at ounce.ããIn a way a commercial product is more like "security by obfuscation" becauseãnot having the source code you can't spot and exploit vulnerability. ããBut for the same reason you are weak, because open source you'll have a lotãmore people examining the code and be able to point out and event correctãdeficiency. ããAlso if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when withãan open source project someone else is free to pick it up.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

So can commercial products.ã> there's a higher likelyhood in open source.ããWith all of the Windows exploits over the years, I think it isãpot-kettle-black.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ It's the Bucket woman! She'll sing at me!!!ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

You don't know what you're talking about.ã> 1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is aã> cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux,ã> MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400.ã> think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.ããSo basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "­Beavis! ¨Donde esta su hall pass?"ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

Re: Re: MacOSã By: Ennev to Nightfox on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:45 amãã En> Yes the virtual keyboard should be a thing for short typing only. When Iã En> really need to type on the go I get the iPad out i got a good keyboard forã En> it called TYPO the key are bigger than most laptop, and it come with aã En> case that make it piratically look like a laptop. With apps like Coda withããI've seen some things like that. And I remember one of the major PC companiesã(Dell, HP, Asus, I don't remember) made a tablet/laptop hybrid a few years agoãwhich snapped onto a keyboard accessory, and their slogan for it was "A tabletãwhen you want it, a laptop when you need it." I haven't seen too many of thoseãthough..ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 09:03 pmãã >> Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put itã >> in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.ãã MR> you dont understand how this 'bug' was advantagious?ããAny software flaw like this could be advantageous for someone who'd want toãexploit it.. Pretty much any software will have bugs in it eventually though,ãincluding closed-source software. If you look at the list of Windows updates,ãfor instance, there are a lot of security fixes from Microsoft. Just becauseãthere are security flaws, that doesn't mean someone intentionally put them inãthe software, and they do get fixed once discovered.ããI suppose Heartbleed could have just gone unreported for that long and theãmedia could have not been alerted about it or paid to keep quiet about it.. Iãjust somehow doubt it. Why then suddenly report it and fix it?ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Gamgee to NIGHTFOX on Fri Dec 22 2017 08:41 pmãã > NI>As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process soã > th NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ãã > Absolutely.ããããHAHAHAã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 amãã > Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support whenã > with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.ãããor it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadowãof its former self.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:25 amãã > > > So can commercial products.ã > > there's a higher likelyhood in open source.ãã > With all of the Windows exploits over the years, I think it isã > pot-kettle-black.ããããi'm not comparing windows and linux. ãlinux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source isãnot safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.ãthe best way to hide something is out in the open and thats why things likeãheartbleed went on for years.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 12:10 pmãã > I suppose Heartbleed could have just gone unreported for that long and theã > media could have not been alerted about it or paid to keep quiet about it..ã > I just somehow doubt it. Why then suddenly report it and fix it?ããããsomeone alerted the public to the issue.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:38 amãã > > You don't know what you're talking about.ã > > 1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". itã > > is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris,ã > > Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows andã > > even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me toã > > that.ã >ã > So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)ããIf Windows the Mac computers ran a TLS/SSL server that used OpenSSL, yes.ãMicrosoft's IIS for example, does not use OpenSSL. Apache and Tomcat forãWindows, for example, do use OpenSSL, so they were vulnerable.ãã digital manããSynchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #31:ãISDN = Integrated Services Digital NetworkãNorco, CA WX: 64.9øF, 19.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when withã>an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.ããI know DOS is dead and all, but one product I wish would have been releasedãopen source when the owner abandonded it was Desqview... well, that andãQEMM. Someone bought Quarterdeck, IIRC, and then let those products die.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ ÈÊÊÊʼ Hey Rocky, watch me pull a tagline outta my hatã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to ENNEV on Sat Dec 23 2017 06:14 pmãã DW> I know DOS is dead and all, but one product I wish would have beenã DW> released open source when the owner abandonded it was Desqview... well,ã DW> that and QEMM. Someone bought Quarterdeck, IIRC, and then let thoseã DW> products die. ããThat would have been interesting. I'm not sure what development would haveãbeen done on it if it was open-sourced though.. I know there are open-sourceãDOS projects still around (FreeDOS and OpenDOS), but it seems there isn't muchãof any official DOS support anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Ifãsomeone is going to run DOS these days, it would probably be on an old PC or inãan emulation environment, and in either case, I'd expect the original QEMM andãDesqview to work (hopefully). If it would need tweaks to work in emulatedãmachine, then perhaps it would be useful to open-source it.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review processãNI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ããDC> > Absolutely.ããMR> HAHAHAããNot sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don'tãunderstand how open source / Linux software development works.ããYou should do a little homework so you can understand. Just forãstarters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved byãONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you wantãto. Impress us and come back with what you find out!ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he harpooned Flipper.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

@VIA: VERTãMR>@MSGID: <5A3ECE61.936.dove-nix@bbses.info>ãMR>@REPLY: <5A3E6CF2.1626.dove-unix@mtlgeek.synchro.net>ãMR> Re: Re: distroãMR> By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 amããMR> > Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support whenãMR> > with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.ãããMR>or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadãMR>of its former self.ããOnce again you show that you don't understand how open source softwareãdevelopment works. Bravo!ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he inserted the suppository.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

Re: Re: distroã By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 pmãã > NI>As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review processã > NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ãã > DC> > Absolutely.ãã > MR> HAHAHAãã > Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don'tã > understand how open source / Linux software development works.ãã > You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just forã > starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved byã > ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you wantã > to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!ããããyou guys are trying to WIN the argument by CHANGING the argument.ãi'm not playing that game.ããi'm not going to do homework for you and i'm not here to impress you.ãi think this is the first time i've seen you post as well.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:50 pmãã > MR>or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's aã > shad MR>of its former self.ãã > Once again you show that you don't understand how open source softwareã > development works. Bravo!ããããfirst, you are quoting me on things i have not said.ãã > or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's aã > shadow of its former self.ããalso i have seen this happen with my own eyesã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Gamgee on Sat Dec 23 2017 11:12 pmãã > MR>>or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code ã > shad MR>>until it's a of its former self.ãã >> Once again you show that you don't understand how open source softwareã >> development works. Bravo!ãã MR> first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.ããI saw you post what he quoted in an earlier message.ãã >> or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it'sã >> a shadow of its former self.ãã MR> also i have seen this happen with my own eyesããThat's the same thing that he quoted above.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

i'm not comparing windows and linux.ã>linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source isã>not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.ããI would tend to agree with this statement. Open source is no more safeãthan anything else. Back when Windows had an overwhelming dominance, mostãexploits were written for it. Now that linux (and other open source) haveãbeen around for awhile, no doubt it is making a better target of itself.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

That would have been interesting. I'm not sure what development would haveã> been done on it if it was open-sourced though.. I know there are open-sourceããWell, I am thinking more "at the time" than now. It still had room for aãfew improvements as machines got more powerful, and probably had a bug orãtwo that could have been fixed. IIRC, when it was abandonded, it was stillãthe only true multitasker that was readily available to the generalãpublic... well, besides OS/2 multitasking.ããI have also wondered what Desqview (and Desqview/X) might have become if itãhad been open source and could have been ported to *nix. :)ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's aã> > shadow of its former self.ã>ã> also i have seen this happen with my own eyesããSome versions of old door games that were open sources, or hacked, come toãmind.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "Mmmmmmmm.....doughnuts."ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:12 pmãã > MR> first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.ãã > I saw you post what he quoted in an earlier message.ãããhe was quoting another person and his editor was tacking on mro> in theãquoting.ãã > That's the same thing that he quoted above.ãããyou're confused. ennev posted part of those quotes.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:56 amãã > > > or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's aã > > > shadow of its former self.ãã > > also i have seen this happen with my own eyesãã > Some versions of old door games that were open sources, or hacked, come toã > mind.ãããit's not just old stuff. its been happening for a long time. we can give a lotãof bbs related examples, though. it's not just in the bbs world.ããwhat i'm saying in this whole thread is just because something is open source,ãit doesnt mean that its SAFER. infact, there have been many many issues thatãhave slipped past hundreds of people. ããyou cant blindly trust anybody[people you do not know], or anything.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:55 amãã DW> I have also wondered what Desqview (and Desqview/X) might have become ifã DW> it had been open source and could have been ported to *nix. :)ãã*nix has native support for multi-tasking.. I'm not sure what the advantageãwould be of having DesqView ported to *nix. Unless it had other features thatãI've forgotten about.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 2017 01:44 pmãã MR> he was quoting another person and his editor was tacking on mro> in theã MR> quoting.ããThat's because you wrote what was being quoted.ãã >> That's the same thing that he quoted above.ãã MR> you're confused. ennev posted part of those quotes.ããI don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one with theãmro in front of it and again without.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:39 amãã > >i'm not comparing windows and linux.ã > >linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that openã > source isã > >not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.ã >ã > I would tend to agree with this statement. Open source is no more safeã > than anything else. Back when Windows had an overwhelming dominance, mostã > exploits were written for it. Now that linux (and other open source) haveã > been around for awhile, no doubt it is making a better target of itself.ããI think open source software has the *potential* to be more safe than closedãsource, but that really depends on how many people or organizations areãinterested in improving it. With closed source, you only have one organziationãwith the ability to improve the quality, while with open source, you have theã*potential* for a large number of organizations and indivuduals toãlook/scan/test/improve.ããThat said, I think most open source software doesn't really get any moreãattention to quality than it would if it were closed. <shrug>ãã digital manããThis Is Spinal Tap quote #31:ãViv Savage: Quite exciting, this computer magic!ãNorco, CA WX: 74.7øF, 12.0% humidity, 1 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

@VIA: VERTãMR>@MSGID: <5A3F3700.944.dove-nix@bbses.info>ãMR>@REPLY: <5A3F24EF.6549.dove-nix@dmine.net>ãMR> Re: Re: distroãMR> By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 pmããMR> > NI>As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review processãMR> > NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.ããMR> > DC> > Absolutely.ããMR> > MR> HAHAHAããMR> > Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don'tãMR> > understand how open source / Linux software development works.ããMR> > You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just forãMR> > starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved byãMR> > ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you wantãMR> > to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!ãããMR>you guys are trying to WIN the argument by CHANGING the argument.ãMR>i'm not playing that game.ããHuh? Are you claiming you didn't say that "anybody can put any randomãcode into Linux" (I'm paraphrasing there)? I didn't change theãargument, I simply said that wasn't true. There is VERY strict controlãon what code gets added/modified in Linux. Really, it's true.ããMR>i'm not going to do homework for you and i'm not here to impress you.ããI already know the names, and was using that as a point to help youãunderstand how Linux development works. I guess you still don't know.ããMR>i think this is the first time i've seen you post as well.ããProbably not the first, but what would that matter, anyway? I recentlyãgot back into calling BBS's and using offline mail.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he puked on Christopher Robin.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

@VIA: VERTãMR>@MSGID: <5A3F3755.945.dove-nix@bbses.info>ãMR>@REPLY: <5A3F24F0.6550.dove-nix@dmine.net>ãMR> Re: Re: distroãMR> By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:50 pmããMR> > MR>or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it'sãMR> > shad MR>of its former self.ããMR> > Once again you show that you don't understand how open source softwareãMR> > development works. Bravo!ããMR>first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.ããYou're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing theãcode?ããMR> > or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's aãMR> > shadow of its former self.ããMR>also i have seen this happen with my own eyesããGenerally speaking, if losers screw up the code that way, the program inãquestion is no longer used by others (since it now sucks), and saidãprogram is abandoned/ignored. The correct term for this would be losersãwho "fork" some code into something else, but the original code is notã"taken over" or ruined. Please try to learn more about this.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as the dirigible popped.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 12:29 pmãã > I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one withã > the mro in front of it and again without.ãããno it had mro for bothããdo you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autisticã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:12 pmãã > Huh? Are you claiming you didn't say that "anybody can put any randomã > code into Linux" (I'm paraphrasing there)? I didn't change theããyes you are paraphrasing!ãã > I already know the names, and was using that as a point to help youã > understand how Linux development works. I guess you still don't know.ããwell good for youã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:15 pmãã > MR>first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.ãã > You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing theã > code?ãããoh jesus christ.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: distroã By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 2017 09:38 pmãã >> I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, oneã >> with the mro in front of it and again without.ãã MR> no it had mro for bothãã MR> do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autisticããI got a screenshot for you:ãhttp://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/mro-quotes_2017-12-23.pngããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: distroã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 10:31 pmãã > MR> no it had mro for bothãã > MR> do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autisticãã > I got a screenshot for you:ã > http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/mro-quotes_2017-12-23.pngããlike i said, you are confused. stop worrying about it.ãthat isnt even the correct thing to quote. ããi explained what his editor did.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

@VIA: VERTã>@MSGID: <5A40733F.959.dove-nix@bbses.info>ã>@REPLY: <5A4028CE.6562.dove-nix@dmine.net>ã> Re: Re: distroã> By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:15 pmãã> > MR>first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.ãã> > You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing theã> > code?ããã>oh jesus christ.ããWell, it's his birthday.ããYou didn't answer the question, though.ããã * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USAã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:38 amãã >> You don't know what you're talking about.ã >> 1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux".ã >> it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used onã >> Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoftã >> Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don'tã >> hold me to that. ãã DW> So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)ãã Any place that used the OpenSSL Library to do A Thing. The exploit wasãspecifically written for the https protocol, but it likely could have beenãexploited other ways, too.ããDaiTenguãã... Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties! - Bart Simpsonãã---ã þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.comã

you cant blindly trust anybody[people you do not know], or anything.ããAgreed!ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "Mmmmmmmm.....pie pants."ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

*nix has native support for multi-tasking.. I'm not sure what the advantageã> would be of having DesqView ported to *nix. Unless it had other features thatã> I've forgotten about.ããI think I was thinking as a desktop flavor... tap the alt key a couple ofãtimes, etc....ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

no it had mro for bothã> do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autisticããI think you were channeling through another user. :Dãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "Wanna give Honest Abe another term in the Oval Office?"ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã

Re: Re: distroã By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 26 2017 05:07 pmãã > > no it had mro for bothã > > do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autisticãã > I think you were channeling through another user. :Dããããprobably someone under control of my bbs botnet that kk4qbn accused me ofãrunning.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

probably someone under control of my bbs botnet that kk4qbn accused me ofã> running.ããLOL.ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ "Tryin' is the first step towards failure." - Homerã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938ã