I have a few questions about running a linux distro in a vm on a linux box. Iãhave read up about how to get Ethernet working over a bridge, but have not yetãgot to installing the system, etc.ãã(1) When the qemu session is running, is it smart to use the xserver on the vmãinstance? If I am not using the xserver and running the vm instance in consoleãmode, will qemu catch certain keystrokes like ctrl-alt-2 so I can switch toãtty2 (for example) or will that keystroke combo be interpreted by the hostãmachine?ãã(2) If I can follow the directions and get the Ethernet bride workingãcorrectly, so that the network can see both the host and vm, I assume I canãalso do things like mount nfs shares in the vm. Is that a correct assumption?ãã(3) Will I be able to access other hardware while in the vm, like a usb portãand whatever might be connected to it?ããI have run DOS in a vm on a linux box, but I expect this to be different. :)ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * CCO BBS * capcity2.synchro.netã

Re: Running linux in vm on linux boxã By: Dumas Walker to All on Thu Jul 12 2018 07:11 pmãã DW> I have a few questions about running a linux distro in a vm on a linuxã DW> box. I have read up about how to get Ethernet working over a bridge, butã DW> have not yet got to installing the system, etc.ãã DW> (1) When the qemu session is running, is it smart to use the xserver onããI don't have experience with qemu, but I've used VMWare and VirtualBox and Iãthink both work well.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Running linux in vm on linux boxã By: Dumas Walker to All on Thu Jul 12 2018 07:11 pmãã > I have a few questions about running a linux distro in a vm on a linux box.ã > I have read up about how to get Ethernet working over a bridge, but have notã > yet got to installing the system, etc.ãããhey, stop right now and run proxmoxã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Running linux in vm on linux box ã By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Fri Jul 13 2018 04:10 pm ã ã MR> hey, stop right now and run proxmox ã ã It sounds like he's trying to run a Linux VM on top of an already working ãlinux system. why would you suggest he wipe his system and install a ãspecialized hypervisor like Promoxox?ã ã Proxmox is great if you want to run a bunch of VMs, but you can't do much onãthe bare system other than manage those VMs. ã ãDaiTengu ã ããMikeãã---ã þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.comã

Dumas Walker wrote to All <=-ãã DW> @VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2ã DW> @TZ: c12cã DW> I have a few questions about running a linux distro in a vm on a linuxã DW> box. I have read up about how to get Ethernet working over a bridge,ã DW> but have not yet got to installing the system, etc.ãã DW> (1) When the qemu session is running, is it smart to use the xserver onã DW> the vm instance? If I am not using the xserver and running the vmã DW> instance in console mode, will qemu catch certain keystrokes likeã DW> ctrl-alt-2 so I can switch to tty2 (for example) or will that keystrokeã DW> combo be interpreted by the host machine?ããIt depends on the purpose of the VM. For example: I have a VM thatãhandles just mail. I have no XServer on it because I only access itãthrough shell or with the email client. ããHowever, I have a VM or two that I keep around to test out differentãdistributions of Linux or run a Windows app or two and those have fullãgraphics capabilities.ãã DW> (2) If I can follow the directions and get the Ethernet bride workingã DW> correctly, so that the network can see both the host and vm, I assume Iã DW> can also do things like mount nfs shares in the vm. Is that a correctã DW> assumption?ããIf you are using QEMU/KVM or LXD you can.ãã DW> (3) Will I be able to access other hardware while in the vm, like a usbã DW> port and whatever might be connected to it?ããYes. It must be in the config file of the guest OS. If you are usingãQEMU/KVM I suggest virt-manager to help you visualize the management ofãthe config files. It makes it a lot easier and faster than writingãyour own config files.ããI have a VM on my server that I use virt-manager to remote into andãthen share my USB microphone with to do dictation.ãã DW> I have run DOS in a vm on a linux box, but I expect this to beã DW> different. :)ããHappy computing. I have a few servers. Most have both KVM/QEMU andãLXD virtuals/containers on them. I've found that VirtualBox does aãwonderful job. It's just that it is very similar to KVM/QEMU and Iãdon't see a purpose for it on a Linux Machine. However, I do haveãVirtualBox running on my Microsoft Hosts.ãã DW> ---ã DW> þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * CCO BBS * capcity2.synchro.netãã __ __ã __ / /__ _______ __ __ __ / /ã/ // / _ `/_ /_ // // / / // / ã\___/\_,_//__/__/\_, /__\___/ ã /___/___/ ãã... Jay's Cafe' tn://bbs.jayscafe.net:23 - TW2002 - 15 players 5 nodesã--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49ã þ Synchronet þ JAYSCAFE2 - jayscafe2.jayctheriot.comã

It depends on the purpose of the VM. For example: I have a VM thatã> handles just mail. I have no XServer on it because I only access itã> through shell or with the email client.ããIt is actually to run a BBS on. Specifically, I have a new 64-bit UP Boardãthat currently hosts my 64-bit synchronet bbs (compiles and works great onãthere, btw, I prolly need to tell DM), and I still have a 32-bit debian boxãthat is hosting my older DOS bbs. I tried running in under dosemu on theã64-bit os and it does not like some of the dos stuff, so I am trying theã32-bit debian in a vm with dosemu installed. We will see how that goes.ããSo far, the vm works, and dosemu works (real slow!), but I am not so sureãthat binkley will load. FYI, I am using ubilinux which is the recommendedã64-bit debian variant for the up board... it has drivers for it.ãã> If you are using QEMU/KVM or LXD you can.ããSomeone told me to use ip instead of brctl. I could only get ip workingãonce. Brctl seems to set the bridge up perfectly, and the vm gets a IPãaddress assigned from the router!ãã> DW> (3) Will I be able to access other hardware while in the vm, like a usbã> DW> port and whatever might be connected to it?ãã> Yes. It must be in the config file of the guest OS. If you are usingã> QEMU/KVM I suggest virt-manager to help you visualize the management ofã> the config files. It makes it a lot easier and faster than writingã> your own config files.ããI am using QEMU without KVM right now. I was able to get pretty easily getãthe vm to recognize the connected serial port and modem... at least wellãenough to echo at commands to the modem and make the lights blink. :)ãã> Happy computing. I have a few servers. Most have both KVM/QEMU andã> LXD virtuals/containers on them. I've found that VirtualBox does aã> wonderful job. It's just that it is very similar to KVM/QEMU and Iã> don't see a purpose for it on a Linux Machine. However, I do haveã> VirtualBox running on my Microsoft Hosts.ããThanks!ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ ...a host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance...ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * CCO BBS * capcity2.synchro.netã

It sounds like he's trying to run a Linux VM on top of an already workingã> linux system. why would you suggest he wipe his system and install aã> specialized hypervisor like Promoxox?ããExactly. Trying to emulate a 32-bit install on a working 64-bit machine.ãProxmox looks pretty neat but I like the linux distro I currently have. :)ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ Hey, how 'bout a fandango ?!?ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * CCO BBS * capcity2.synchro.netã

Re: Running linux in vm on linux boxã By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Fri Jul 13 2018 09:30 amãã Ni> I don't have experience with qemu, but I've used VMWare and VirtualBox andã Ni> I think both work well.ããI've used qemu/kvm/libvirt for many years. I wouldn't say I'm an expert (itã"just works" since I set it up) but I really enjoy it.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Backwood Realm BBS - bwrbbs.ddns.net - Southern Indiana, USAã

Re: Running linux in vm on linux boxã By: DaiTengu to MRO on Sat Jul 14 2018 09:59 amãã MR>> hey, stop right now and run proxmox ããI was really into Proxmox until I realized their pricing model and what proxmoxãactually is in comparison to running the bare services on your server. Theyãhave a wonderful web UI but if you're looking to scale, look to give them moneyãfor each CPU you license AFAIR.ãã-= The Darkener =-ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Backwood Realm BBS - bwrbbs.ddns.net - Southern Indiana, USAã

Re: Running linux in vm on linux boxã By: The Darkener to DaiTengu on Mon Sep 03 2018 03:28 pmãã TD> I was really into Proxmox until I realized their pricing model and whatã TD> proxmox actually is in comparison to running the bare services on yourã TD> server. They have a wonderful web UI but if you're looking to scale, lookã TD> to give them money for each CPU you license AFAIR.ããã Proxmox is free to use. Without the community license (about $93 per year,ãper physical cpu socket), you simply don't get access to actual support orãtheir update repository, so all updates have to be done manually.ããIt's dirt cheap when compared to something like Citrix XenServer, VMWare, orãany of the other enterprise virtualization products. ããThe less you pay for a hypervisor, the more work you have to do to do things.ãStuff like VMWare and XenServer can be single-click deploy systems. While otherãstuff like KVM with ovirt on Linux requires a fair amount of tinkering to getãeverything running just right.ãã(I run VM clusters as part of my day job, we recently moved from Proxmox to Xenãbecause management is stupid and likes to waste money)ããDaiTenguãã... Rugby is played by men with odd-shaped balls!!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.comã

Proxmox is free to use. Without the community license (about $93 perã > year, per physical cpu socket), you simply don't get access to actualã > support or their update repository, so all updates have to be doneã > manually.ã > ããI've been using promox free for years now. Actually i'm talking to you troughãmy bbs that's been running in bridged mode on promox since 2015. No glitch. ããit's really a great platform and great for the person that want to experiment.ãMy Tradewar game server is also a vm on promox, so it's flexible the bbs runãunder linux ubuntu and the tradewars in windows.ããSO i can attest that like you that it work well.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Exactly. Trying to emulate a 32-bit install on a working 64-bit machine.ã > Proxmox looks pretty neat but I like the linux distro I currently have. :)ããonce you virtualize you can mix and match your vms, my bbs is a 32bit ubuntuãvm, and i have a lamp server (ubuntu 64bit) concurently and a windows box aãlubuntu and another vm debian 64. ããYou could even virtualize a win95 if you felt like it.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Mon Oct 15 2018 03:48 pmãã > once you virtualize you can mix and match your vms, my bbs is a 32bit ubuntuã > vm, and i have a lamp server (ubuntu 64bit) concurently and a windows box aã > lubuntu and another vm debian 64.ã >ã > You could even virtualize a win95 if you felt like it.ããThis is pretty much what I do with my other BBS. I am running MajorBBS onãWindows XP in a Virtual Machine on MacOS. I have an old 2006 Black Macbookãthat was collecting dust. I was going to sell it when I decided to turn itãinto a MajorBBS server and it actually runs surprisingly well.ããIf you would have told me in the early 1990's that I'd be running MajorBBS on aãApple computer in 2018, I wouldn't have believed you, lol.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ The Dawn of Demise (tdod.org:5000)ã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Minex to Ennev on Tue Oct 16 2018 09:07 amãã Mi> This is pretty much what I do with my other BBS. I am running MajorBBS onã Mi> Windows XP in a Virtual Machine on MacOS. I have an old 2006 Black Macbookã Mi> that was collecting dust. I was going to sell it when I decided to turn itã Mi> into a MajorBBS server and it actually runs surprisingly well.ããIn 2010, I had a Mac Mini and ran my BBS in a Windows 2000 VM on it for aãwhile. It ran okay, although not as speedy as in other configurations I've runãit in. Currently I'm running my BBS in a Windows 7 (32-bit) VM in VirtualBoxãrunning on a Linux Mint host (I run other stuff on that machine), with an Intelãi5-9XX something, and it runs very well on it.ãã Mi> If you would have told me in the early 1990's that I'd be running MajorBBSã Mi> on a Apple computer in 2018, I wouldn't have believed you, lol.ããYeah, things can change a lot. I'm not sure there was much virtualizationãsoftware for the Mac before they started using Intel processors. I've heardãrumors that Apple is planning to switch to ARM processors for their Macãstarting in 2020 though.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Nightfox to Minex on Tue Oct 16 2018 15:55:04ãã > Yeah, things can change a lot. I'm not sure there was much virtualizationã > software for the Mac before they started using Intel processors. I've heardã > rumors that Apple is planning to switch to ARM processors for their Macã > starting in 2020 though.ããI've heard that Apple was making their own processors, not ARM.ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -ã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Wed Oct 17 2018 08:40 amãã >> Yeah, things can change a lot. I'm not sure there was muchã >> virtualization software for the Mac before they started using Intelã >> processors. I've heard rumors that Apple is planning to switch to ARMã >> processors for their Mac starting in 2020 though.ãã Ja> I've heard that Apple was making their own processors, not ARM.ããWell ARM actually doesn't make processors, ARM makes processor designs andãlicenses the designs to other companies to make their own processors with ARMãdesigns. So Apple would be making their own ARM-based processor.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Wed Oct 17 2018 09:41 amãã > >> Yeah, things can change a lot. I'm not sure there was muchã > >> virtualization software for the Mac before they started using Intelã > >> processors. I've heard rumors that Apple is planning to switch to ARMã > >> processors for their Mac starting in 2020 though.ã > ã > Ja> I've heard that Apple was making their own processors, not ARM.ã > ã > Well ARM actually doesn't make processors, ARM makes processor designs andã > licenses the designs to other companies to make their own processors with ARã > designs. So Apple would be making their own ARM-based processor.ããKind of like RISC? Although, I have heard that RISC is more open than ARM.ããWith ARM licensing their designs, that would make sense for Apple ro make theirãown ARM chips. I would beinterested how that will work out for them both salesãwise and software wise.ãã-jagãCode it, Script it, Automate it!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Frugal Computing BBS - frugalbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Wed Oct 17 2018 02:31 pmãã >> Well ARM actually doesn't make processors, ARM makes processor designsã >> and licenses the designs to other companies to make their ownã >> processors with AR designs. So Apple would be making their ownã >> ARM-based processor. ãã Ja> Kind of like RISC? Although, I have heard that RISC is more open than ARM.ããMy understanding is that RISC is an architecture (Reduced Instruction SetãComputing). Any CPU maker can make a processor with a RISC design. RISC isn'tãa specific company that is more open than another.ãã Ja> With ARM licensing their designs, that would make sense for Apple ro makeã Ja> their own ARM chips. I would beinterested how that will work out for themã Ja> both sales wise and software wise.ããApple has switched CPUs in their Macs a couple times before (once from Motorolaã68k to PowerPC, and then from PowerPC to Intel). I'm sure they will probablyãbe okay. I think it's a little disappointing though, because Macs with Intelãmeans they can run both OS X and Windows easily. Compatibility will suffer aãbit, but that will be temporary. But there will probably be a point whereãIntel-based Mac apps won't be updated to run on ARM-based Macs, so Mac usersãwon't be able to use them anymore.ããI imagine Apple is frustrated with Intel right now, but companies sometimes goãinto a bit of a slump, but I don't think it should mean Apple should dropãIntel.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

On 10-17-18 14:31, Jagossel wrote to Nightfox <=-ãã Ja> With ARM licensing their designs, that would make sense for Apple roã Ja> make their own ARM chips. I would beinterested how that will work outã Ja> for them both sales wise and software wise.ããCould be some interesting crossovers between desktop and iPhone/iPad apps inãthis.ããã... Experience is knowing a lot of things you shouldn't do again.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.51ã þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.auã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Wed Oct 17 2018 12:31 pmãã Ni> Apple has switched CPUs in their Macs a couple times before (once fromã Ni> Motorola 68k to PowerPC, and then from PowerPC to Intel). I'm sure theyã Ni> will probably be okay. I think it's a little disappointing though, becauseã Ni> Macs with Intel means they can run both OS X and Windows easily.ã Ni> Compatibility will suffer a bit, but that will be temporary. But thereã Ni> will probably be a point where Intel-based Mac apps won't be updated toã Ni> run on ARM-based Macs, so Mac users won't be able to use them anymore.ããonly difference between a 68k and PowerPC was 16-bti vs. 32-bit, the changet oãIntel was significated because the Intel CPU wasn't compabible with 68k/PPCãcode which is why for a while OSx could run on both CPUs until they had enoughãof an Intel base that they phased out support for Motorola CPUs in 10.5.xã(Leopard I think).ããApple has never been one for Windows, and at this point I don't think itãmatters what CPU the platform runs on. Also, doesn't Win10 run on ARM CPUs? Iãused to love Apple systems, now they are just sealed bloatware.ããI'm responding to an old message, sorry if you guys have moved on a long timeãago. ;)ã--ãAndroid8675@ShodansCoreãããã... I am not an Economist. I am an honest man!ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Shodan's Core @ ShodansCore.comã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Android8675 to Nightfox on Thu Oct 25 2018 02:13 pmãã An> only difference between a 68k and PowerPC was 16-bti vs. 32-bit, theã An> changet o Intel was significated because the Intel CPU wasn't compabibleã An> with 68k/PPC code which is why for a while OSx could run on both CPUsã An> until they had enough of an Intel base that they phased out support forã An> Motorola CPUs in 10.5.x (Leopard I think).ããhmm, I always thought the transition from 68k to PowerPC was also significantãbecause the PowerPC used a different instruction set. I've always heard Appleãhad to use emulation to be backwards-compatible with 68k.ãhttp://lowendmac.com/roundtable/12rt/026-powerpc-transition.htmlã"Perhaps the most important feature of the new Power Macs was Apple's inclusionãof a 680x0 emulator as part of Mac OS, which allowed PowerPC Macs to run mostãexisting software efficiently on the new processors, much as Rosetta wouldãlater allow Intel Macs ro run PowerPC software."ãã An> Apple has never been one for Windows, and at this point I don't think itããSince they transitioned to Intel, they (or at least, Apple users) have alwaysãadvertised the ability to run Windows as an advantage though.ãã An> matters what CPU the platform runs on. Also, doesn't Win10 run on ARMã An> CPUs? I used to love Apple systems, now they are just sealed bloatware.ããI've heard Microsoft has been working on a version of Win10 that runs on ARM,ãbut I don't know of any such devices on the market yet. I thought it was stillãin development, and that PC makers were still working on ARM-based Windowsãdevices.ããAlso, I'm not sure what you mean by "sealed bloatware"? People often say AppleãMacs don't include all the bloatware that is usually installed on Windowsãsystems from major PC makers.ããI think the CPU does matter, at least to some extent, because changing the CPUãthat the system runs on would require an emulator for a period of time untilãtheir software is updated to run natively on the new CPU. And someãapplications might never get updated.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Nightfox to Android8675 on Thu Oct 25 2018 17:08:42ãã > An> only difference between a 68k and PowerPC was 16-bti vs. 32-bit, theã > An> changet o Intel was significated because the Intel CPU wasn'tã > An> compabible with 68k/PPC code which is why for a while OSx could run onãã > hmm, I always thought the transition from 68k to PowerPC was alsoã > significant because the PowerPC used a different instruction set. I'veã > always heard Apple had to use emulation to be backwards-compatible with 68k.ã > "Perhaps the most important feature of the new Power Macs was Apple'sã > inclusion of a 680x0 emulator as part of Mac OS, which allowed PowerPC Macsã > to run most existing software efficiently on the new processors, much asã > Rosetta would later allow Intel Macs ro run PowerPC software."ããIt's actually more significant than that, even. The PowerPC's emulation of theã68k is actually at the hardware level, rather than in software. Since theãPowerPC was developed by Apple, IBM, and Motorola, one of it's main functionsãwas specifically to replace the 68k, and software-level emulation at that pointãwasn't anywhere near efficient enough to do so effectively. So the emulation isãbuilt into the chips themselves.ããApple stopped supporting PowerPC after Leopard... but the Classic MacOS -- OS9,ãwhatever, which still had a lot of native 68k libraries -- would run on anyãPowerPC Mac, up to the G5 (the G5 had to do it from within OSX because of aãfirmware change; the G4, though, could boot as OS9).ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ filesã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Derision to Nightfox on Sun Oct 28 2018 01:35 pmãã De> It's actually more significant than that, even. The PowerPC's emulation ofã De> the 68k is actually at the hardware level, rather than in software. Sinceã De> the PowerPC was developed by Apple, IBM, and Motorola, one of it's mainã De> functions was specifically to replace the 68k, and software-levelã De> emulation at that point wasn't anywhere near efficient enough to do soã De> effectively. So the emulation is built into the chips themselves.ããInteresting.. I do remember hearing somewhere that Mac software for 68kãsometimes ran better on the PowerPC - Probably due to the hardware backwardsãcompatibility.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running linux in vm on liã By: Nightfox to Derision on Mon Oct 29 2018 09:49:50ãã > De> It's actually more significant than that, even. The PowerPC's emulationã > De> of the 68k is actually at the hardware level, rather than in software.ã >ã > Interesting.. I do remember hearing somewhere that Mac software for 68kã > sometimes ran better on the PowerPC - Probably due to the hardware backwardsã > compatibility.ããAbsolutely. The earliest PowerPC chips, while faster overall the the 68040sãthat came before them, didn't execute code quite as fast. So a 100Mhz PowerPCã601 actually performed 68k stuff slower than a 25Mhz 68040, but that was fixedãlater on by adding cache and whatnot and, I think, dynamically recompiling someãof the code to native PowerPC.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ filesã