Sometimes I still feel like a backup on an optical disc is more secureã >than a backup on a hard drive, because files on a hard drive could beã >deleted accidentally, whereas a backup on an optical disc is permanent.ããI find myself using Optical drives less and less however anything importantãto me I still back up on CDR or DVDR. Flash (Thumb) drives are very handy butãI've had 2 of them fail over the years and a hard drive can crash and loseãdata as well so the only 'permanent' solution I like are optical disks.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Consciousness: That annoying time between naps þã þ PDQWK 2.52 #17ã---ã þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ moe's * 1-502-875-8938 * moetiki.ddns.net:27ã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: ROB MCCART to NIGHTFOX on Thu Oct 25 2018 05:28 pmãã > I find myself using Optical drives less and less however anything importantã > to me I still back up on CDR or DVDR. Flash (Thumb) drives are very handyã > but I've had 2 of them fail over the years and a hard drive can crash andã > loseã > data as well so the only 'permanent' solution I like are optical disks.ãããi used to like to backup to cds and dvds, but they can get cd rot, so i justãdont trust them anymore. ããi think the best way to backup is do it 3 different ways.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: MRO to ROB MCCART on Sat Nov 03 2018 06:51 pmãã MR> i used to like to backup to cds and dvds, but they can get cd rot, so iã MR> just dont trust them anymore. ããThe only time I ever experienced any CD degradation was when I once used aãCD-RW (re-writeable) for a backup. I tried to access it just a couple yearsãlater and my PC just had a hard time reading some of the files. Those filesãwere important to me, so I ended up finding some software that would keepãtrying to read the files for hours (if you'd let it), and it was able toãfinally copy the files off the disc.ããNormally I would back up to -R (write-once) discs, and I store them in a darkãdry place, and haven't had a problem. My computer desk has an area forãsoftware disc storage, and there are other CDs I have in boxes in a closet. ãI've had some discs I burned about 18-20 years ago and others I've bought thatãare older that I can still read without any problems.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Nov 03 2018 06:09 pmãã > Normally I would back up to -R (write-once) discs, and I store them in aã > dark dry place, and haven't had a problem. My computer desk has an area forã > software disc storage, and there are other CDs I have in boxes in a closet.ã > I've had some discs I burned about 18-20 years ago and others I've boughtã > that are older that I can still read without any problems.ããthere's a cd manufacturer in the uk that did research and found that discs haveãissues around 8-10 years. ãthere's bronzing, pin holes and edge rot.ããi used the most popular kinds of media and i got it once in a while. with theãreal cheap stuff it was very commonplace.ããit's very common. ãthey touted them as lasting forever, but even laserdiscs had this issue in theã80s. ãããthe library of congress recommends using archive grade media.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Nov 04 2018 11:26 amãã MR> there's a cd manufacturer in the uk that did research and found that discsã MR> have issues around 8-10 years. ã MR> there's bronzing, pin holes and edge rot.ãã MR> i used the most popular kinds of media and i got it once in a while. withã MR> the real cheap stuff it was very commonplace.ããFor a long time it seemed Memorex was the most common brand of writeableãoptical discs I saw in stores, but it seemed I had problems writing to thoseãdiscs more often than other brands. I would often use brands such as Verbatim,ãTDK, and Sony.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-ãã Ni> For a long time it seemed Memorex was the most common brand ofã Ni> writeable optical discs I saw in stores, but it seemed I had problemsã Ni> writing to those discs more often than other brands. I would often useã Ni> brands such as Verbatim, TDK, and Sony.ããIt's unfortunate that M-DISCS are so expensive. I'm bumping old family VHSãvideos to M-DISC, as other mediums are too complex for non-techie family ãmembers. I'm spending a small fortune for those things. I'm only making a ãsingle copy to M-DISC, as I also store the ISO on HDD, so I can reburn discs ãto standard media as they reach their 10 year EOL. My parents will get the ãM-DISC burns, and everyone else will get dye based burns. ããã... If money could talk, it would say goodbye.ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.51ã þ Synchronet þ Frugal Computing BBS - frugalbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Chai to Nightfox on Tue Nov 06 2018 07:42 pmãã Ch> It's unfortunate that M-DISCS are so expensive. I'm bumping old family VHSã Ch> videos to M-DISC, as other mediums are too complex for non-techie family ã Ch> members. I'm spending a small fortune for those things. I'm only making a ã Ch> single copy to M-DISC, as I also store the ISO on HDD, so I can reburnã Ch> discs to standard media as they reach their 10 year EOL. My parents willã Ch> get the M-DISC burns, and everyone else will get dye based burns. ããInteresting.. I just looked up M-Disc, as I hadn't heard of those before.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

i used to like to backup to cds and dvds, but they can get cd rot, so iãMR> just dont trust them anymore.ããNI>The only time I ever experienced any CD degradation was when I once used aã >CD-RW (re-writeable) for a backup.ãNI>Normally I would back up to -R (write-once) discs, and I store them inã >a dark dry place, and haven't had a problem.ããYes, CDRW medium is not the best for longevity but I have CDR disks writtenã15+ years ago that are still fine. They are stored in a drawer, so there'sãyour dark, dry place.. I even have some floppy disks that are probablyãclose to 25 years old and most are still okay, although anything of valueãwas long ago backed up to CDR's as well.ããBuying name brand CDR/DVDR's seems to make a big difference. They are soãinexpensive these days it's worth paying a little extra to be safer.ãI've had some no-name ones fail almost immediately after they were made.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ Oh well... Just another bear I'll have to cross þã þ PDQWK 2.52 #17ã---ã þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ moe's * 1-502-875-8938 * moetiki.ddns.net:27ã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: ROB MCCART to NIGHTFOX on Mon Nov 05 2018 05:24 pmãã RM> Buying name brand CDR/DVDR's seems to make a big difference. They are soã RM> inexpensive these days it's worth paying a little extra to be safer.ã RM> I've had some no-name ones fail almost immediately after they were made.ããMemorex is a common brand of optical discs, but I've had problems with them inãthe past. I've used Verbatim quite a bit and haven't really had problems withãtheir discs. TDK and Sony discs seem fairly good too, although theirs seem aãbit harder to find.ããI still see CD-Rs and DVD-Rs in some stores, and I'm actually a bit surprised,ãconsidering how many people I've seen these days who say they don't use opticalãdiscs much anymore or that they tend to be relatively unreliable. Most storesãseem to only carry CD-Rs and DVD-Rs though. I do wish blu-ray writeable discsãwere more common (particularly double-layer ones), as well as LightScribeãdiscs.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Nightfox to ROB MCCART on Fri Nov 09 2018 05:07 pmãã > unreliable. Most stores seem to only carry CD-Rs and DVD-Rs though. I doã > wish blu-ray writeable discs were more common (particularly double-layerã > ones), as well as LightScribe discs.ããThe prices of LightScribe discs has skyrocketed to the point where I'm noãlonger buying/burning them. It's a bummer too, cause that was a decentãtechnology and I have a number of drives that supported it.ãã digital manããSynchronet "Real Fact" #44:ãSynchronet added JavaScript suppport with v3.10a (2001).ãNorco, CA WX: 59.9øF, 15.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrsã---ã þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.netã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Nov 09 2018 09:20 pmãã DM> The prices of LightScribe discs has skyrocketed to the point where I'm noã DM> longer buying/burning them. It's a bummer too, cause that was a decentã DM> technology and I have a number of drives that supported it.ããThat is a bummer. I hadn't checked the prices in a while, so I didn't realizeãthe prices had gone up that much.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-ãã DM> The prices of LightScribe discs has skyrocketed to the point where I'm noã DM> longer buying/burning them. It's a bummer too, cause that was a decentã DM> technology and I have a number of drives that supported it.ãã Ni> That is a bummer. I hadn't checked the prices in a while, so I didn'tã Ni> realize the prices had gone up that much.ããGiven the choice between having optical drives and not having them, I still ãprefer to have one. I suppose the Internet is making them obsolete, but Iãfind an occasional use for them. I also still occasionally use my USB floppyãdrive from time to time, as well. I suppose most people are not into retroãcomputing, so.. I just watched a video of a guy that was able to use hisãUSB floppy drive on his iPad. Things like that interest me.ããAs for LightScribe, I haven't used that in ages. It was a great technology, ãas it basically turned your optical drive into a label etcher. I guess now,ãthey just make all the media printable. I guess that would work as well,ãbut I use a laser printer. I've never actually had a printer that could ãprint on optical media. ããCh. ã--- MultiMail/Win v0.51ã þ Synchronet þ Frugal Computing BBS - frugalbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Chai to Nightfox on Sat Nov 10 2018 06:45 pmãã > floppy drive from time to time, as well. I suppose most people are not intoã > retro computing, so.. I just watched a video of a guy that was able to useã > hisãããi'm just more practical in my old age. i dont want shit around if i'm notãusing it. and cds and dvds sucked. pain in the ass to load them up or burn toãthem when you can use a flash drive or a harddrive.ãã > As for LightScribe, I haven't used that in ages. It was a great technology,ã > as it basically turned your optical drive into a label etcher. I guess now,ã > they just make all the media printable. I guess that would work as well,ã > but I use a laser printer. I've never actually had a printer that could ã > print on optical media. ãããalways used a sharpie.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: MRO to Chai on Sat Nov 10 2018 08:09 pmãã MR> i'm just more practical in my old age. i dont want shit around if i'm notã MR> using it. and cds and dvds sucked. pain in the ass to load them up or burnã MR> to them when you can use a flash drive or a harddrive.ããI don't think it was such a pain to burn to optical drives. I always usedãoptical burning software (such as Nero) but Windows started includingãfunctionality to burn to optical discs since Windows XP, I believe, so youãcould do drag & drop CD/DVD burning (I never used that feature much, so I don'tãremember how exactly it worked).ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Nov 12 2018 09:23 amãã > Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã > By: MRO to Chai on Sat Nov 10 2018 08:09 pmãã > MR> i'm just more practical in my old age. i dont want shit around if i'mã > MR> not using it. and cds and dvds sucked. pain in the ass to load them upã > MR> or burn to them when you can use a flash drive or a harddrive.ãã > I don't think it was such a pain to burn to optical drives. I always usedã > optical burning software (such as Nero) but Windows started includingã > functionality to burn to optical discs since Windows XP, I believe, so youã > could do drag & drop CD/DVD burning (I never used that feature much, so Iã > don't remember how exactly it worked).ããããit's a big hassle for me. especially when doing dvds. flash drives are better.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

Buying name brand CDR/DVDR's seems to make a big difference.ããNI>Memorex is a common brand of optical discs, but I've had problems with them iã >the past. I've used Verbatim quite a bit and haven't really had problems witã >their discs. TDK and Sony discs seem fairly good too, although theirs seem aã >bit harder to find.ããI currently do have some Memorex although I agree they may not be the bestãof the 'name brand' disks. I always liked TDK when I could find them.ãThe other brands I have at the moment are FujiFilm and Maxell. Givenãmarketing these days though it can be hard to know how many differentã'makes' all come off the same assembly line in China.ããI do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friendãused to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price - so no-nameãthey had no labels, which I believe also help protect the disks from lightãdeterioration. But he also noted right from the start that about one inãfive disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.ãã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ I think, therefore I am... I think þã þ PDQWK 2.52 #17ã---ã þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ moe's * 1-502-875-8938 * moetiki.ddns.net:27ã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: ROB MCCART to NIGHTFOX on Sun Nov 11 2018 04:54 pmãã RM> I currently do have some Memorex although I agree they may not be the bestã RM> of the 'name brand' disks. I always liked TDK when I could find them.ã RM> The other brands I have at the moment are FujiFilm and Maxell. Givenã RM> marketing these days though it can be hard to know how many differentã RM> 'makes' all come off the same assembly line in China.ãã RM> I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friendã RM> used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price - so no-nameã RM> they had no labels, which I believe also help protect the disks from lightã RM> deterioration. But he also noted right from the start that about one inã RM> five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.ããYeah, I tended to avoid the cheaper no-name ones, even if they were in the bigãspindles. I remember there also being more off-brand names - I think I stillãhave something backed up on a "Mr. Data" CD-R somewhere.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Chai to Nightfox on Sat Nov 10 2018 18:45:00ãã > Given the choice between having optical drives and not having them, I stillã > prefer to have one. I suppose the Internet is making them obsolete, but Iã > find an occasional use for them. I also still occasionally use my USBã > floppy drive from time to time, as well.ããMe too. I actually find myself using it quite a bit. Part of my job isãmaintaining my company's elderly computers (the general ledger is still run onãthe CP/M version of dBase...!) so being able to access floppies is still superãimportant (though my MacBook Pro no longer supports USB floppies).ããBlu-Rays and DVDs are also great for backing up. And while I have an AUX portãin my car, sometimes I just prefer to have a few CDs I can throw on and notãhave to worry about plugging my phone into something.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ filesã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Derision to Chai on Mon Nov 12 2018 07:48 pmããDe> Me too. I actually find myself using it quite a bit. Part of my job isãDe> maintaining my company's elderly computers (the general ledger is still runãDe> on the CP/M version of dBase...!) so being able to access floppies is stillãDe> super important (though my MacBook Pro no longer supports USB floppies).ããI have a USB floppy somewhere, and my Thinkpad Docks have a Floppy connector. Iãshould try reading some of mine, my last two floppies I'd kept for posterity'sãsake (Qedit install disk) I could read without problem a few years back.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Derision to Chai on Mon Nov 12 2018 07:48 pmãã De> still super important (though my MacBook Pro no longer supports USBã De> floppies). ããHow does it no longer support USB floppies? Was the USB floppy device driverãremoved from OS X?ãã De> Blu-Rays and DVDs are also great for backing up. And while I have an AUXã De> port in my car, sometimes I just prefer to have a few CDs I can throw onã De> and not have to worry about plugging my phone into something.ããYeah, I still like backing things up on optical discs sometimes. For my car, Iãbought a 32GB USB flash drive just for my car and put a bunch of MP3s on it,ãand I leave that plugged in in my car all the time. Makes it easy to listen toãit when I want to.ããNightfoxãã---ã þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.comã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Nightfox to Derision on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:53 amããNi> Yeah, I still like backing things up on optical discs sometimes. For myãNi> car, I bought a 32GB USB flash drive just for my car and put a bunch ofãNi> MP3s on it, and I leave that plugged in in my car all the time. Makes itãNi> easy to listen to it when I want to.ããYep, devices are my own cloud backup. I have a 200 GB SD card in my phone andãhave my movies and most of my music in it. My car has a 64GB USB stick with theãrest. If my PC throws a hard disk, the media is covered.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:10 pmãã > Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã > By: Nightfox to Derision on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:53 amãã > Ni> Yeah, I still like backing things up on optical discs sometimes. For myã > Ni> car, I bought a 32GB USB flash drive just for my car and put a bunch ofã > Ni> MP3s on it, and I leave that plugged in in my car all the time. Makes itã > Ni> easy to listen to it when I want to.ãã > Yep, devices are my own cloud backup. I have a 200 GB SD card in my phoneã > and have my movies and most of my music in it. My car has a 64GB USB stickã > with the rest. If my PC throws a hard disk, the media is covered.ããããwow you have a real small media library. dont you get sick of hearing the sameãstuff all the time?ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friendã> used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price - so no-nameã> they had no labels, which I believe also help protect the disks from lightã> deterioration. But he also noted right from the start that about one inã> five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.ããThe one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarelyãever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also useãthem for one-time burns for OS installer discs.ããMikeãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind!ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:23 pmããMR> wow you have a real small media library. dont you get sick of hearing theãMR> same stuff all the time?ããNo.ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:39 pmããDW> The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. RarelyãDW> ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also useãDW> them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.ããI'd much rather burn an install ISO onto a DVD/CD then make a stick. Most of myãold computers still have DVD drives, though. :)ãã---ã þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.orgã

Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm Oã By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:39 pmããã > The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarelyã > ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also useã > them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.ãããthat's because it just chirps or does something unnoticable.ã---ã þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::ã

I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friendã >> used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good priceã >> But he also noted right from the start that about one inã >> five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.ããDW>The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarelyã >ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also useã >them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.ããYes, I think music software is better at covering for minor errors thanãpure data uses.. although these days with drives reading and writingãso much faster virtually all drives are set up to 'best guess' smallãgaps for what is missing rather than generate an error and stop, andãit works well 99% of the time.ããSystem backups that I expect (hope?) to never use I don't do all thatãoften anymore unless I make major changes to the Operating System orãchange hardware requiring changed drivers and such.ãI keep a copy of the day to day stuff I need kept up to date backed upãon a flash drive until there's enough to burn to a disk but I don't doãthe full O.S. very often.ã---ã þ SLMR Rob þ I feel much better since I gave up hope... þã þ PDQWK 2.52 #17ã---ã þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ moe's * 1-502-875-8938 * moetiki.ddns.net:27ã

I keep a copy of the day to day stuff I need kept up to date backed upã> on a flash drive until there's enough to burn to a disk but I don't doã> the full O.S. very often.ããI have an old machine that I use as a file server here at the house. Theãbbs machine does a mirror backup to it once a day. Most of my otherãmachines do it at least once a week, and I backup up that whole server to aãusb hard drive once a week.ããMakes it easy to go back and get a file over the network (or the usb hd)ãwhen I accidentally fat-finger-delete it. :)ãã---ã þ SLMR 2.1a þ Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?ã þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTPã