Forum: HispaMSX BBS

[symbos8bit] Sam Coupe?

From Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr [symbos8bit]@symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com to symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com on Wed Sep 17 12:07:30 2014

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I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an article sayin=
g a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was releas=
ed at 2008 I think.

Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am curious w= hat happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It would be awes= ome to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine yet though, but=
I learn to code for it and test in emulator). Are there some technical dif= ficulties maybe? There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am wondering if=
the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I did found it ok, eve=
n though confusing at first, but now I find it powerful in a sense). --1189344063-1703395565-1410952050=:8678
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<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div class="" style="">I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an article saying a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was released at 2008 I think.</div><div class="" style=""><br></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am curious what happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It would be awesome to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in emulator). Are there some technical difficulties maybe? There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am
wondering if the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I did found it ok, even though confusing at first, but now I find it powerful in a sense).</div></div>





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From =?UTF-8?B?SsO2cm4gTWlrYQ==?= jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8bit]@symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com to symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com on Wed Sep 17 21:06:38 2014

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Hi Optimus,

the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't had
any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the most
complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx port has
already started in 2011). You are completely right, the big issue
regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam Coupe
only provides two 32KB windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram which both
can point to any 16KB aligned memory position. This will cause some
problems for required memory configurations in special modules of the
core operating system, as they require swapping of 16KB blocks only
while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some simulations, and I think
it could be still possible, but it will be more complex, as some general
kernel logic has to be redone.
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there before
next year or so...

CU,
Prodatron

Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr
[symbos8bit]:

I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an article
saying a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag
was released at 2008 I think.

Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am
curious what happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It
would be awesome to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the
machine yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in emulator).
Are there some technical difficulties maybe? There is a lot of ram,
great for Symbos, I am wondering if the memory switching would be a
problem for Symbos (I did found it ok, even though confusing at first,
but now I find it powerful in a sense).

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Hi Optimus,<br>
<br>
the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.<br>
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't
had any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the
most complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and
Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx
port has already started in 2011). You are completely right, the big
issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam
Coupe only provides two 32KB windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram
which both can point to any 16KB aligned memory position. This will
cause some problems for required memory configurations in special
modules of the core operating system, as they require swapping of
16KB blocks only while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some
simulations, and I think it could be still possible, but it will be
more complex, as some general kernel logic has to be redone.<br>
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there
before next year or so...<br>
<br>
CU,<br>
Prodatron<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael
Kargas <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a> [symbos8bit]:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1410952050.8678.YahooMailNeo@web173001.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
type="cite"> <span style="display:none"> </span>

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style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div class="">I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag
and there was an article saying a version of Symbos is
planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was released at
2008 I think.</div>
<div class=""><br>
</div>
<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:
16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif;font-style: normal;background-color:
transparent;">Since I am very much interested on the Sam
Coupe these days, I am curious what happened with the
project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It would be awesome
to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine
yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in
emulator). Are there some technical difficulties maybe?
There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am wondering
if the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I
did found it ok, even though confusing at first, but now
I find it powerful in a sense).</div>
</div>
</div>


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From Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr [symbos8bit]@symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com to symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com on Wed Sep 17 22:52:14 2014

--1189344063-1282194291-1410990734=:7254
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Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to be ported for quite more ma= chines, the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!
Was the symbos designed in such a way that is more easily portable? The OS = alone seemed quite a bit work, I would never imagine to see it in msx and p= cw. How much time did such port take?

=CE=A3=CF=84=CE=B9=CF=82 8:06 =CE=BC.=CE=BC. =CE=A4=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC=CF=81= =CF=84=CE=B7, 17 =CE=A3=CE=B5=CF=80=CF=84=CE=B5=CE=BC=CE=B2=CF=81=CE=AF=CE= =BF=CF=85 2014, =CE=BF/=CE=B7 "J=C3=B6rn Mika jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8b= it]" <symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com> =CE=AD=CE=B3=CF=81=CE=B1=CF=88=CE=B5:
=20

=20=20
Hi Optimus,

the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't
had any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the
most complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and
Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx
port has already started in 2011). You are completely right, the big
issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam
Coupe only provides two 32KB windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram
which both can point to any 16KB aligned memory position. This will
cause some problems for required memory configurations in special
modules of the core operating system, as they require swapping of
16KB blocks only while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some
simulations, and I think it could be still possible, but it will be
more complex, as some general kernel logic has to be redone.
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there
before next year or so...

CU,
Prodatron

Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr [symbos8bi= t]:

=20=20

I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an article sayi=

ng a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was relea= sed at 2008 I think.

Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am curious = what happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It would be awe= some to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine yet though, bu=

t I learn to code for it and test in emulator). Are there some technical di= fficulties maybe? There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am wondering i=
f the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I did found it ok, ev=
en though confusing at first, but now I find it powerful in a sense).

--1189344063-1282194291-1410990734=:7254
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<style type=3D"text/css">

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<br><br>



<div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue,=
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt= "><div><span>Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to be ported for = quite more machines, the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!</span></div><div = style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, = 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style=
: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Was the symbos designed in = such a way that is more easily portable? The OS alone seemed quite a bit wo= rk, I would never imagine to see it in msx and pcw. How much time did such = port take?</span></div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div cla= ss=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: H= elveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-ser= if; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue,
'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> =CE=A3=CF=84= =CE=B9=CF=82 8:06 =CE=BC.=CE=BC. =CE=A4=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC=CF=81=CF=84=CE=B7=
, 17 =CE=A3=CE=B5=CF=80=CF=84=CE=B5=CE=BC=CE=B2=CF=81=CE=AF=CE=BF=CF=85 201=
4, =CE=BF/=CE=B7 "J=C3=B6rn Mika jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8bit]" <symb= os8bit@yahoogroups.com> =CE=AD=CE=B3=CF=81=CE=B1=CF=88=CE=B5:<br> </font=

</div> <br><br> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv2438343458"=
<div>

<span style=3D"display:none;"> </span>

<div id=3D"yiv2438343458ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"">
<div id=3D"yiv2438343458ygrp-msg" style=3D"">

<div id=3D"yiv2438343458ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>
=20=20
=20=20
Hi Optimus,<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.<br clear= =3D"none">
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't
had any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the
most complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and
Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx
port has already started in 2011). You are completely right, the big
issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam
Coupe only provides two 32KB windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram
which both can point to any 16KB aligned memory position. This will
cause some problems for required memory configurations in special
modules of the core operating system, as they require swapping of
16KB blocks only while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some
simulations, and I think it could be still possible, but it will be
more complex, as some general kernel logic has to be redone.<br clear= =3D"none">
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there
before next year or so...<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
CU,<br clear=3D"none">
Prodatron<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div><div class=3D"yiv2438343458moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.09.2014 13:07, = schrieb Michael
Kargas <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv2438343458moz-t= xt-link-abbreviated" ymailto=3D"mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr" target=3D"_bla= nk" href=3D"mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a> [symbos8b= it]:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div class=3D"yiv2438343458yqt2833868354" id=3D"yiv2438343458yqt12697">= <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <span> </span>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div id=3D"yiv2438343458ygrp-text">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue, = 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size:=
12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div class=3D"yiv2438343458class">I was just reading an old S=
am Coupe papermag
and there was an article saying a version of Symbos is
planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was released at
2008 I think.</div>
<div class=3D"yiv2438343458class"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div class=3D"yiv2438343458class" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica=
, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color:=
transparent;">Since I am very much interested on the Sam
Coupe these days, I am curious what happened with the
project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It would be awesome
to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine
yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in
emulator). Are there some technical difficulties maybe?
There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am wondering
if the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I
did found it ok, even though confusing at first, but now
I find it powerful in a sense).</div>
</div>
</div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
</blockquote></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
=20=20

</div>
=20=20=20=20=20

=20=20=20=20
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From Edward Robbins edd.robbins@gmail.com [symbos8bit]@symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com to symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com on Wed Sep 17 23:04:22 2014

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Cant imagine what it will look like on an NC100!

You know you want to do a PCW16 port!

Ed (munchausen)

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr [symbos8bit] <symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to be ported for quite more machines, the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!
Was the symbos designed in such a way that is more easily portable? The O=

S

alone seemed quite a bit work, I would never imagine to see it in msx and pcw. How much time did such port take?

=CE=A3=CF=84=CE=B9=CF=82 8:06 =CE=BC.=CE=BC. =CE=A4=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC=

=CF=81=CF=84=CE=B7, 17 =CE=A3=CE=B5=CF=80=CF=84=CE=B5=CE=BC=CE=B2=CF=81=CE= =AF=CE=BF=CF=85 2014, =CE=BF/=CE=B7 "J=C3=B6rn Mika

jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8bit]" <symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com> =CE=AD=CE=

=B3=CF=81=CE=B1=CF=88=CE=B5:

Hi Optimus,

the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't had
any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the most complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx port has alrea=

dy

started in 2011). You are completely right, the big issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam Coupe only provides two 32=

KB

windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram which both can point to any 16KB
aligned memory position. This will cause some problems for required memor=

y

configurations in special modules of the core operating system, as they require swapping of 16KB blocks only while keeping the remaining 48KB. I
made some simulations, and I think it could be still possible, but it wil=

l

be more complex, as some general kernel logic has to be redone.
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there before
next year or so...

CU,
Prodatron

Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr [symbos8bit]:

I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an article
saying a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was released at 2008 I think.

Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am
curious what happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It
would be awesome to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine
yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in emulator). Are there
some technical difficulties maybe? There is a lot of ram, great for Symbo=

s,

I am wondering if the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I d=

id

found it ok, even though confusing at first, but now I find it powerful i=

n

a sense).

=20

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Cant imagine what it will look like on an NC100!<div><br><= /div><div>You know you want to do a PCW16 port!</div><div><br></div><div>Ed=
(munchausen)</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail= _quote">On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Michael Kargas <a href=3D"mailto:o= ptimus6128@yahoo.gr">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a> [symbos8bit] <span dir=3D"ltr= "><<a href=3D"mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">symbo= s8bit@yahoogroups.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>

<br><br>

<div style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,He= lvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div>= <span>Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to be ported for qui=
te more machines, the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!</span></div><div sty= le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvet= ica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-style= :normal;background-color:transparent"><span>Was the symbos designed in such=
a way that is more easily portable? The OS alone seemed quite a bit work, =
I would never imagine to see it in msx and pcw. How much time did such port=
take?</span></div> <div><br><br></div><div style=3D"display:block"> <div s= tyle=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,= 'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style=3D"font-fami= ly:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grand= e',sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial"> = =CE=A3=CF=84=CE=B9=CF=82 8:06 =CE=BC.=CE=BC. =CE=A4=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC=CF=81= =CF=84=CE=B7, 17 =CE=A3=CE=B5=CF=80=CF=84=CE=B5=CE=BC=CE=B2=CF=81=CE=AF=CE= =BF=CF=85 2014, =CE=BF/=CE=B7 "J=C3=B6rn Mika <a href=3D"mailto:jmika@= prodatron.net" target=3D"_blank">jmika@prodatron.net</a> [symbos8bit]"=
<<a href=3D"mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">symbos= 8bit@yahoogroups.com</a>> =CE=AD=CE=B3=CF=81=CE=B1=CF=88=CE=B5:<br> </fo=

</div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br><br> <div><div><div>

<span>=C2=A0</span>

<div>
<div>

<div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>
=20=20
=20=20
Hi Optimus,<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.<br clear= =3D"none">
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't
had any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the
most complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and
Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx
port has already started in 2011). You are completely right, the big
issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam
Coupe only provides two 32KB windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram
which both can point to any 16KB aligned memory position. This will
cause some problems for required memory configurations in special
modules of the core operating system, as they require swapping of
16KB blocks only while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some
simulations, and I think it could be still possible, but it will be
more complex, as some general kernel logic has to be redone.<br clear= =3D"none">
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there
before next year or so...<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
CU,<br clear=3D"none">
Prodatron<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div><div>Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael
Kargas <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:optimus6128@= yahoo.gr" target=3D"_blank">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a> [symbos8bit]:<br clear= =3D"none">
</div>
<div><blockquote type=3D"cite"> <span>=C2=A0</span>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,'H= elvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-= size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div>I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag
and there was an article saying a version of Symbos is
planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag was released at
2008 I think.</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:Hel= veticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande'= ,sans-serif;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent">Since I am very=
much interested on the Sam
Coupe these days, I am curious what happened with the
project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe? It would be awesome
to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the machine
yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in
emulator). Are there some technical difficulties maybe?
There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am wondering
if the memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I
did found it ok, even though confusing at first, but now
I find it powerful in a sense).</div>
</div>
</div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
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</div><div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div> </=

<div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both"></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>





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<hr style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; backgroun= d-color:#E3E3E3;">
Posted by: Edward Robbins <edd.robbins@googlemail.com> =
<hr style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-colo= r:#E3E3E3;">
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From =?UTF-8?B?SsO2cm4gTWlrYQ==?= jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8bit]@symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com to symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com on Thu Sep 18 02:36:10 2014

--------------060306020706050205060504
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Optimus,

SymbOS wasn't planned to be portable at the beginning, but there where
some circumstances, why it was possible at the end:
- SymbOS was designed to run in CPC Mode 0, 1 and 2; that required a
strict seperation of low and high level graphic routines (mode 0 isn't supported in the GUI anymore due to its very limited resolution)
- multitasking assumes, that the programs don't know much about the
memory environment, as they could be loaded anywhere; so the memory
management has to be flexible and hardware independant like the graphic
output as well; this includes memory banking (mapping)
- SymbOS has been designed to support all kind of mass storage devices
and file systems, not only floppy discs and Amsdos or CP/M but IDE and
FAT, too; the result was, that you were not fixed on old hardware and antiquated filesystems
These three things already made it portable, and so Trebmint convinced
me to start with the MSX version.

Porting it to the MSX was quite easy in the first step. The multitasking
kernel was already running after 1 day and the first GUI screenshots
could be taken after serveral days. But the MSX2 is a much more powerful machine compared to the Amstrad CPC, and so supporting all its advanced features (especially regarding 16 colour graphics and so many types of interesting mass storage devices) took a lot of additional time and
required to expand some existing structures and concepts.
After this has been accomplished, the PCW port was really an interesting experience. As there was already the MSX port, the PCW port wasn't
difficult at all anymore. Just some new low level screen routines, and
that's it. The memory mapping is MSX like and the floppy disc is CPC
like. After 1 month the first beta was fully working, and after 2
monthes the whole port was finished 100%.

This should be the same with the Enterprise and the NCxx, as there is no
new work required regarding different hardware, only the final
configuration is a little different of course.

CU,
Prodatron

Am 17.09.2014 23:52, schrieb Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr
[symbos8bit]:

Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to be ported for quite
more machines, the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!
Was the symbos designed in such a way that is more easily portable?
The OS alone seemed quite a bit work, I would never imagine to see it
in msx and pcw. How much time did such port take?

Στις 8:06 μ.μ. Τετάρτη, 17 Σεπτεμβρίου 2014, ο/η "Jörn Mika
jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8bit]" <symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com> έγραψε:

Hi Optimus,

the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports didn't
had any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would be the
most complicated port (in contrast to the planned Enterprise 128 and
Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or less trivial - NCxx
port has already started in 2011). You are completely right, the big
issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC the Sam
Coupe only provides two 32KB windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram which
both can point to any 16KB aligned memory position. This will cause
some problems for required memory configurations in special modules of
the core operating system, as they require swapping of 16KB blocks
only while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some simulations, and I
think it could be still possible, but it will be more complex, as some general kernel logic has to be redone.
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there
before next year or so...

CU,
Prodatron

Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr <mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr> [symbos8bit]:

I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an article
saying a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe. The papermag
was released at 2008 I think.

Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am
curious what happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam Coupe?
It would be awesome to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I don't own the
machine yet though, but I learn to code for it and test in emulator).
Are there some technical difficulties maybe? There is a lot of ram,
great for Symbos, I am wondering if the memory switching would be a
problem for Symbos (I did found it ok, even though confusing at
first, but now I find it powerful in a sense).

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<br><br>



Hi Optimus,<br>
<br>
SymbOS wasn't planned to be portable at the beginning, but there
where some circumstances, why it was possible at the end:<br>
- SymbOS was designed to run in CPC Mode 0, 1 and 2; that required a
strict seperation of low and high level graphic routines (mode 0
isn't supported in the GUI anymore due to its very limited
resolution)<br>
- multitasking assumes, that the programs don't know much about the
memory environment, as they could be loaded anywhere; so the memory
management has to be flexible and hardware independant like the
graphic output as well; this includes memory banking (mapping)<br>
- SymbOS has been designed to support all kind of mass storage
devices and file systems, not only floppy discs and Amsdos or CP/M
but IDE and FAT, too; the result was, that you were not fixed on old
hardware and antiquated filesystems<br>
These three things already made it portable, and so Trebmint
convinced me to start with the MSX version.<br>
<br>
Porting it to the MSX was quite easy in the first step. The
multitasking kernel was already running after 1 day and the first
GUI screenshots could be taken after serveral days. But the MSX2 is
a much more powerful machine compared to the Amstrad CPC, and so
supporting all its advanced features (especially regarding 16 colour
graphics and so many types of interesting mass storage devices) took
a lot of additional time and required to expand some existing
structures and concepts.<br>
After this has been accomplished, the PCW port was really an
interesting experience. As there was already the MSX port, the PCW
port wasn't difficult at all anymore. Just some new low level screen
routines, and that's it. The memory mapping is MSX like and the
floppy disc is CPC like. After 1 month the first beta was fully
working, and after 2 monthes the whole port was finished 100%.<br>
<br>
This should be the same with the Enterprise and the NCxx, as there
is no new work required regarding different hardware, only the final
configuration is a little different of course. <br>
<br>
CU,<br>
Prodatron<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.09.2014 23:52, schrieb Michael
Kargas <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a> [symbos8bit]:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1410990734.7254.YahooMailNeo@web173001.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
type="cite"> <span style="display:none"> </span>

<div id="ygrp-text">
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div><span>Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to
be ported for quite more machines, the Enterprise and
even NC 100, wow!</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:
16px;font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif;font-style: normal;background-color:
transparent;"><span>Was the symbos designed in such a
way that is more easily portable? The OS alone seemed
quite a bit work, I would never imagine to see it in
msx and pcw. How much time did such port take?</span></div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica
Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif;font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica
Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif;font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> Στις
8:06 μ.μ. Τετάρτη, 17 Σεπτεμβρίου 2014, ο/η
"Jörn Mika <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmika@prodatron.net">jmika@prodatron.net</a> [symbos8bit]"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com"><symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com></a> έγραψε:<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv2438343458">
<div>
<span> </span>
<div id="yiv2438343458ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="yiv2438343458ygrp-msg">
<div id="yiv2438343458ygrp-text">
<div> Hi Optimus,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
the Sam Coupe is still on the list of
possible SymbOS ports.<br clear="none">
Due to the long stop between 2008 and
2012 the planned ports didn't had any
priority, especially for the Sam
Coupe, as it would be the most
complicated port (in contrast to the
planned Enterprise 128 and Amstrad
NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or
less trivial - NCxx port has already
started in 2011). You are completely
right, the big issue regarding a Sam
Coupe port is the memory mapping. IIRC
the Sam Coupe only provides two 32KB
windows in the primary 64KB Z80 ram
which both can point to any 16KB
aligned memory position. This will
cause some problems for required
memory configurations in special
modules of the core operating system,
as they require swapping of 16KB
blocks only while keeping the
remaining 48KB. I made some
simulations, and I think it could be
still possible, but it will be more
complex, as some general kernel logic
has to be redone.<br clear="none">
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam
Coupe port wouldn't be there before
next year or so...<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
CU,<br clear="none">
Prodatron<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div
class="yiv2438343458moz-cite-prefix">Am
17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael
Kargas <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
class="yiv2438343458moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
ymailto="mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr" target="_blank"
href="mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a>
[symbos8bit]:<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv2438343458yqt2833868354"
id="yiv2438343458yqt12697">
<blockquote type="cite"> <span> </span>
<div id="yiv2438343458ygrp-text">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family: HelveticaNeue,
'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif;font-size:
12pt;background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">
<div class="yiv2438343458class">I
was just reading an old Sam
Coupe papermag and there was
an article saying a version of
Symbos is planned for the Sam
Coupe. The papermag was
released at 2008 I think.</div>
<div class="yiv2438343458class"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv2438343458class"
style="color: rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:
16px;font-family:
HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica
Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif;font-style:
normal;background-color:
transparent;">Since I am very
much interested on the Sam
Coupe these days, I am curious
what happened with the project
to port Symbos to Sam Coupe?
It would be awesome to see
Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I
don't own the machine yet
though, but I learn to code
for it and test in emulator).
Are there some technical
difficulties maybe? There is a
lot of ram, great for Symbos,
I am wondering if the memory
switching would be a problem
for Symbos (I did found it ok,
even though confusing at
first, but now I find it
powerful in a sense).</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>


</blockquote>
<br>





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From =?UTF-8?B?SsO2cm4gTWlrYQ==?= jmika@prodatron.net [symbos8bit]@symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com to symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com on Thu Sep 18 02:41:41 2014

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

It will be very tight of course :D
Currently I am more oriented to the NC200, but the new startmenu of the
3.0 is very flexible.
The PCW16 port isn't really concrete yet unfortunately....

Am 18.09.2014 01:04, schrieb Edward Robbins edd.robbins@gmail.com
[symbos8bit]:

Cant imagine what it will look like on an NC100!

You know you want to do a PCW16 port!

Ed (munchausen)

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr <mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr> [symbos8bit] <symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is planned to be ported for
quite more machines, the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!
Was the symbos designed in such a way that is more easily
portable? The OS alone seemed quite a bit work, I would never
imagine to see it in msx and pcw. How much time did such port take?

Στις 8:06 μ.μ. Τετάρτη, 17 Σεπτεμβρίου 2014, ο/η "Jörn Mika
jmika@prodatron.net <mailto:jmika@prodatron.net> [symbos8bit]"
<symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com>>
έγραψε:

Hi Optimus,

the Sam Coupe is still on the list of possible SymbOS ports.
Due to the long stop between 2008 and 2012 the planned ports
didn't had any priority, especially for the Sam Coupe, as it would
be the most complicated port (in contrast to the planned
Enterprise 128 and Amstrad NC100/150/200 ports, which are more or
less trivial - NCxx port has already started in 2011). You are
completely right, the big issue regarding a Sam Coupe port is the
memory mapping. IIRC the Sam Coupe only provides two 32KB windows
in the primary 64KB Z80 ram which both can point to any 16KB
aligned memory position. This will cause some problems for
required memory configurations in special modules of the core
operating system, as they require swapping of 16KB blocks only
while keeping the remaining 48KB. I made some simulations, and I
think it could be still possible, but it will be more complex, as
some general kernel logic has to be redone.
So unfortunately I guess, that a Sam Coupe port wouldn't be there
before next year or so...

CU,
Prodatron

Am 17.09.2014 13:07, schrieb Michael Kargas optimus6128@yahoo.gr
<mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr> [symbos8bit]:

I was just reading an old Sam Coupe papermag and there was an
article saying a version of Symbos is planned for the Sam Coupe.
The papermag was released at 2008 I think.

Since I am very much interested on the Sam Coupe these days, I am
curious what happened with the project to port Symbos to Sam
Coupe? It would be awesome to see Symbos on the Sam Coupe (I
don't own the machine yet though, but I learn to code for it and
test in emulator). Are there some technical difficulties maybe?
There is a lot of ram, great for Symbos, I am wondering if the
memory switching would be a problem for Symbos (I did found it
ok, even though confusing at first, but now I find it powerful in
a sense).

--------------080600050209060802020809
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<style type="text/css">

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<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">



<br><br>



It will be very tight of course :D<br>
Currently I am more oriented to the NC200, but the new startmenu of
the 3.0 is very flexible.<br>
The PCW16 port isn't really concrete yet unfortunately....<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 18.09.2014 01:04, schrieb Edward
Robbins <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:edd.robbins@gmail.com">edd.robbins@gmail.com</a> [symbos8bit]:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CALVXH_pRWfOeyK_AxW=0dfYXrQVen=yCvifCPH7kpwVPh_AaeA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"> <span style="display:none"> </span>

<div id="ygrp-text">
<div dir="ltr">Cant imagine what it will look like on an
NC100!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You know you want to do a PCW16 port!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ed (munchausen)</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:52 PM,
Michael Kargas <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a>
[symbos8bit] <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank">symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px
#ccc solid;">
<div>
<br>
<br>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div><span>Ok, it's impressive though Symbos is
planned to be ported for quite more machines,
the Enterprise and even NC 100, wow!</span></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida
Grande',sans-serif;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>Was
the symbos designed in such a way that is more
easily portable? The OS alone seemed quite a
bit work, I would never imagine to see it in
msx and pcw. How much time did such port take?</span></div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida
Grande',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida
Grande',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> Στις
8:06 μ.μ. Τετάρτη, 17 Σεπτεμβρίου 2014,
ο/η "Jörn Mika <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jmika@prodatron.net"
target="_blank">jmika@prodatron.net</a>
[symbos8bit]" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank">symbos8bit@yahoogroups.com</a>>
έγραψε:<br>
</font> </div>
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div> Hi Optimus,<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
the Sam Coupe is still on
the list of possible
SymbOS ports.<br
clear="none">
Due to the long stop
between 2008 and 2012 the
planned ports didn't had
any priority, especially
for the Sam Coupe, as it
would be the most
complicated port (in
contrast to the planned
Enterprise 128 and Amstrad
NC100/150/200 ports, which
are more or less trivial -
NCxx port has already
started in 2011). You are
completely right, the big
issue regarding a Sam
Coupe port is the memory
mapping. IIRC the Sam
Coupe only provides two
32KB windows in the
primary 64KB Z80 ram which
both can point to any 16KB
aligned memory position.
This will cause some
problems for required
memory configurations in
special modules of the
core operating system, as
they require swapping of
16KB blocks only while
keeping the remaining
48KB. I made some
simulations, and I think
it could be still
possible, but it will be
more complex, as some
general kernel logic has
to be redone.<br
clear="none">
So unfortunately I guess,
that a Sam Coupe port
wouldn't be there before
next year or so...<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
CU,<br clear="none">
Prodatron<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Am 17.09.2014 13:07,
schrieb Michael Kargas <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:optimus6128@yahoo.gr"
target="_blank">optimus6128@yahoo.gr</a>
[symbos8bit]:<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"> <span> </span>
<div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida
Grande',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">
<div>I was just
reading an old Sam
Coupe papermag and
there was an
article saying a
version of Symbos
is planned for the
Sam Coupe. The
papermag was
released at 2008 I
think.</div>
<div><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida
Grande',sans-serif;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;">Since
I am very much
interested on the
Sam Coupe these
days, I am curious
what happened with
the project to
port Symbos to Sam
Coupe? It would be
awesome to see
Symbos on the Sam
Coupe (I don't own
the machine yet
though, but I
learn to code for
it and test in
emulator). Are
there some
technical
difficulties
maybe? There is a
lot of ram, great
for Symbos, I am
wondering if the
memory switching
would be a problem
for Symbos (I did
found it ok, even
though confusing
at first, but now
I find it powerful
in a sense).</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>


</blockquote>
<br>





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